WSS Incorporating Spanish- Page 2
WSS Incorporating Spanish
hmpeterson
Featured Actor Joined: 6/19/08
#25re: WSS Incorporating Spanish
Posted: 12/18/08 at 12:41pm
So please don't call people ignorant who are looking for more information about the show.
I think Taboo was referring to this post:
WishingOnlyWounds2: I also don't speak a word of Spanish.
So I plan of staying away from this revival.
If that is the case, my apologies Taboo!
Usnavi
Stand-by Joined: 12/3/08
#26re: WSS Incorporating Spanish
Posted: 12/18/08 at 12:42pm
"Back then, when people came to America, they wanted to become more Americanized. (Not saying I agree with that but back in the 50s when WSS was set, that is what happened.) So they would try to speak English instead of Spanish. In this show, the girls really wanted to be American (and the guys did too but I think they were too proud to admit it.) So it would make more sense for them to speak a little Spanish but try to speak more English."
i think wanting to become more "americanized" is the wrong choice of words here. they simply had to adapt and learn (or try to learn) the english language in order to survive.
i think it's appropriate to have the sharks, their girls and maria talk and sing in spanish to each other. which is probably why "i feel pretty", "a boy like that/i have a love" and the sharks portion of the "quintet" are entirely in spanish.
"america" being sung in english even though it's just the shark girls strives home the point of how badly anita wants to embrace her new "home. she has been in the states longer than maria so she would know how to fully express her feelings in english.
it also makes more sense to have maria express her feelings for tony in spanish as she hasn't been in america for very long and probably wouldn't even know how to really fully express those feelings in english in such a short amount of time.
i hope those of you who are willing to experience this classic show under this new concept will enjoy it. to those of you too narrow minded to understand or make the effort i say it's your loss.
#27re: WSS Incorporating Spanish
Posted: 12/18/08 at 12:59pmAm I the only one who finds it funny that the complaints about the use of Spanish are often filled with rotten English?
wickedrentq
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/6/04
#28re: WSS Incorporating Spanish
Posted: 12/18/08 at 2:39pm
The best music for an opera or a musical is when the music is so appropriate and powerful that you could understand what is going on without even hearing any words.
That occurs in many operas, and IMO, in West Side Story. Think about it -- if you never heard "A Boy Like That/I Have A Love" the music gives you the basic idea -- Anita is screaming at Maria ("Tony is one of them!") for something, and since she'll be screaming something with the word "Tony" in it, you can assume the song has something to do with Anita's feelings about Maria loving Tony, and then Maria musically comes back with the same argument, and you know she's singing something to convince Anita that she needs to be with Tony and at the end, you know Anita gives in.
And besides even in the all Spanish dialogue, you'll still hear the names, "Nardo," "Tony," etc, again giving you more an idea of what's going on.
#29all plays must be done in their native tongues
Posted: 12/18/08 at 2:45pmi think that every piece of performance art that depicts a specific ethnic group should be written in that group's language. even if the original piece must be translated. it should be illegtal to force charatcers of different ethnic heritages to speak english onstage. i hope that the nea can get more involved now in banning new works that are not culturally appropriate and working to revise older works that fail to fit the new guidelines.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
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#30all plays must be done in their native tongues
Posted: 12/18/08 at 3:51pm
Ljay- I had a very good eighth grade english teacher and we read WSS, and thoroughly studied it in comparison to Romeo & Juliet. I believe the teacher is still teaching it today :)
And I don't see how anyone can not know anything about WSS. Not only is it brilliant, but I thought it was relatively main stream as far as musicals go.
#31all plays must be done in their native tongues
Posted: 12/18/08 at 7:39pm
I am fluent in Spanish though it is not my native tongue and saw the show. I found the surtitles distracting so I made a conscious effort not to look at them (easy to do, really...due to the placement of the screens off to the sides of the stage). I like the intent of incorporating Spanish though. I just wish they could do away with the screens because it takes people's attention away from the action if they want to read them and don't know Spanish. It also defeats the purpose of having language barriers be one demonstrated element of the separation between the Jets and the Sharks. Light in the Piazza did this much more effectively (though for shorter periods of time in the play).
The translations are not literal. The original lyrics/dialogue in English are posted on the screens, but for the most part, they are not exactly what is being said onstage.
#32all plays must be done in their native tongues
Posted: 12/18/08 at 9:38pm
Another note about the screens
When I saw it tuesday night, they did help a little but I agree they were distracting especially in Boy Like That because they were obviously delayed and not in time with the singing or the music
Other than that, it was really nice to hear the Spanish incorporated, i LOVED it! :)
#33all plays must be done in their native tongues
Posted: 12/18/08 at 10:03pm
I was scared about this production mostly because of the translations. I thought it wouldn't, well, translate. But these comments are making me pretty excited about it. Especially seeing/hearing that lyric of "Hoy Me Siento Tan Hermosa," it's so good!
I would be curious to see how the production would be without any surtitles at all...
~Steven
Unknown User
Joined: 12/31/69
#34all plays must be done in their native tongues
Posted: 12/18/08 at 10:05pm
I think Taboo was referring to this post:
WishingOnlyWounds2: I also don't speak a word of Spanish.
So I plan of staying away from this revival.
exactly.........
thanks for correcting that.
:)
Updated On: 12/18/08 at 10:05 PM
#35all plays must be done in their native tongues
Posted: 12/18/08 at 10:07pm
Ok... I don't speak any spanish either and I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVED it
it was PHENOMENAL! honestly it exceeded any and all expectations I had
and even if you don't speak spanish, you can pretty much get the gist of what they say by their actions and facial expressions
#36all plays must be done in their native tongues
Posted: 12/19/08 at 12:06am
I saw the show this evening and think the spanish worked very well. I particularly liked the spanish in the quintet. I loved, loved, LOVED, I Feel Pretty. Lin Manuel did a marvelous job.
I did not find myself looking at the translation screens on either side of the stage.
#37all plays must be done in their native tongues
Posted: 12/19/08 at 12:15amWhat did you think about the costumes?
#38all plays must be done in their native tongues
Posted: 12/19/08 at 12:23am
The costumes are hideous. The Playbill doesn't specify the time period that the show takes place in, so I take it that that's the costume designer's excuse for having several decades represented here. I also felt that the hair styles of the women were a bit distracting.
#39all plays must be done in their native tongues
Posted: 12/19/08 at 12:26am
yeah.. i did not like the dresses
especially in America some of the dresses looked like awful 80's prom dresses
#40all plays must be done in their native tongues
Posted: 12/19/08 at 12:27amYikes. I hope someone tells Arthur the costumes need to be changed.
#41all plays must be done in their native tongues
Posted: 12/19/08 at 12:32am
I think the dance at the gym dresses bothered me the most (and the shoes, too).
I'll post more tomorrow. Seeing the show again on Saturday night.
WishingOnlyWounds2
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/25/08
#42all plays must be done in their native tongues
Posted: 12/19/08 at 12:40am
"i think it's appropriate to have the sharks, their girls and maria talk and sing in spanish to each other. which is probably why "i feel pretty", "a boy like that/i have a love" and the sharks portion of the "quintet" are entirely in spanish.
"america" being sung in english even though it's just the shark girls strives home the point of how badly anita wants to embrace her new "home. she has been in the states longer than maria so she would know how to fully express her feelings in english."
So say this production transfers to a spanish speaking country at some point, will they sing america in english with spanish subtitles?
I doubt it.
CurtainPullDowner
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/4/04
#43all plays must be done in their native tongues
Posted: 12/19/08 at 1:14am
I saw the show tonight and I have a lot to say about it later.
As far as the Spanish, I know the show very well so it was interesting to hear some in Spanish. Theo translations on the sides are unreadable from the balcony so i never even looked at them.
But my question is what does it add to the show?
And as someone stated, when the show is performed in non-english countries will it always been done this way?
There are many other problems than this, like some of the worst acting I have ever seen and some of the best dancing.
And terrible scene changes and pauses between lines that are insufferable.
I gotta collect my thoughts better.
More later.
LadyDramaturg2
Featured Actor Joined: 8/21/08
#44all plays must be done in their native tongues
Posted: 12/19/08 at 3:24am
Dear WishingOnlyWounds, et al. who have fears based on oblique opinion:
Don't avoid this revival. There is so much more to this brilliant piece of music/theater than Spanish language-or-not; or Bad Members' Only Satin Purple Jackets --
See it.
Then, let us know.
I promise, I will do that. And after we've both seen it, we can argue about worthy things.
Sleeper2
Leading Actor Joined: 2/8/06
#45all plays must be done in their native tongues
Posted: 12/19/08 at 7:39am
Saw it last night. The way the surtitles are presented was extremely distracting, in my opinion. While the Spanish, in and of itself, didn't bother me, I don't think it elevated this lackluster production to a new level of cultural expression.
The use of Spanish is a minor issue compared to the bad performances. Matt Cavenaugh made a comic book character of Tony. He actually sounded like Groucho Marx. That nasal warble was awful, especially when juxtaposed to that angelic Maria. Cody was so void of emotion. Sure, the guy can dance, but he really needs to work on his acting.
Karen Olivo is brilliant. I see a Tony nomination for her, if Brantley doesn't kill this show off early.
#46all plays must be done in their native tongues
Posted: 12/20/08 at 10:29pm
So the surtitles for the Spanish-language songs show the original English lyrics rather then the literal translation of the Spanish? Hmmm...that doesn't really make sense. If you're going to do it you might as well go all the way! :)
There's one thing that might be a stumbling-block for this bilingual version. I've seen bilingual shows/films that worked wonderfully before. I thought that The Light In The Piazza's use of Italian was amazing, and one of my favorite movies, The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, has several key scenes entirely in Spanish that just wouldn't have the same effect any other way. But the thing about WSS is that it was not originally intended to be bilingual. The other things I mentioned were probably carefully written with the intent that audience would be able to know what was going on even without understanding the exact words. WSS wasn't. It might not be possible make it that way, even with good acting, just because of the way the dialogue is written. That's where the surtitles come in, I guess...if you like reading surtitles while watching a show.
Just a thought. :)
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#47all plays must be done in their native tongues
Posted: 12/20/08 at 10:35pm
So say this production transfers to a spanish speaking country at some point, will they sing america in english with spanish subtitles?
I doubt it.
So what? Those people in Spanish speaking countries most likely all know more English than you know Spanish.
esparza 333
Broadway Star Joined: 7/24/07
#48all plays must be done in their native tongues
Posted: 12/21/08 at 8:52amIn my Hopes and Thoughts for the WSS REVIVAL Thread I had said that i Hope they make fluid and natural transitions to the Spanish Lyrics. I also said that I Hope they can maintain the beauty and poignance of Sondheim's original lyrics. Judging my the below comments I think my wishes have been fulfilled.
WishingOnlyWounds2
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/25/08
#49all plays must be done in their native tongues
Posted: 12/21/08 at 9:56am
So what? Those people in Spanish speaking countries most likely all know more English than you know Spanish.
The thing is half the people who emigrate from Spanish speaking countries don't know English, and sometimes don't feel the need to learn it so I disagree, I live in a English speaking country... when I had to chance to learn a foreign language, I took French, never expecting to need to know Spanish. I still think it's very wrong that if you only speak English, in America that there are now many everyday changes.
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