Warning: Tricks the Devil Taught Me- Page 5

[artscallion]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 3:25pm

I wouldn't get measured for your pedestal just yet, Nom. I still think you're misunderstanding the context of the statement. The phrase itself (which can be argued to be offensive or benign on its own) is included in a list of things describing the show. Where, or who, this list comes from is irrelevant. The point is the context in which this list is placed on the website. That context is that this list of things is what makes this show a terrible show you shouldn't support. So he's claiming that "promoting homosexuality" in a play is a reason not to support the play.

To me, that is homophobic, whether intentional or cause by sloppy copy/pasting. And it's also irrelevant whether or not this guy is gay. I know lots of gay guys who are homophobic. I think his taking the quote down is more of an acknowledgment that he pasted in haste and is removing the offensive words.

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 3:37pm

"Go ahead and post the PMs ghostlight2 - post my responses, too."

You have my permission to post my pms in full. Yes, Mine was the first. After trying to reason with you, and seeing you threadjack some poor dude who was scouting for a theater, I pm'd you "dear god, but you're a bore". You may feel free to post your response, if you think it will help your cause. I don't think it will, but please do. In fact, post the entire conversation. You have my permission, nay, my encouragement. I have not taken a single word of yours out of context.

Your non-apology (the classic "I'm sorry if you were offended") is a nonstarter. It's actually a little hard to imagine that I'm not offended by your calling me a wh0re, a submissive queen, stupid, and an idiot, but in truth, I'm not. You were obviously deeply affected by this experience, and it's marred your judgement. I sincerely wish you the best of luck ad hope you can move on from this. It was SIX YEARS ago. I respect your wanting to protect others, but you're going about this all wrong.

The true irony is I am someone who might have been able to help you.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 3:38pm

artscallion, what gave it away to me was that the statement had "makes fun of" in front of it. To me, in that context it said promotional, however the content was written. I saw the statement as saying two different things. There was a financial taking advantage of claimed and an informational promotional statement just describing the show. The grammar could have been better in the combining or juxtaposition of the two different statements/ideas, but I've seen lots worse grammar on here. That plus the perceived subcontext of "promotes homosexuality" is what I think led to the confusion of some posters.

Personally I do not care for pedestals. Too pedestrian.

[artscallion]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 3:42pm

Perhaps we can get you a nice cloud somewhere.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 3:45pm

Thank you for the thought, artscallion.

You might have to kick Microsoft off it first.

[HistoryBoy2]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 4:59pm

I'm enjoying this stand-off.

[artscallion]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 4:59pm

But just to be clear, you're still not getting it. The phrase "makes fun of..." only applies to the the items before the word "and".

If it were also applying to the homosexuality bit, it would be phrased "It makes fun of religion, divorce, alcohol abuse and promotING homosexuality." ." Not, "It makes fun of religion, divorce, alcohol abuse and promotES homosexuality."

I was just giving you the cloud cause I'm nice like that.

Updated On: 8/4/11 at 04:59 PM

[Kad]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 5:23pm

Robbie also never said it was promotional material for the show. He said it came from someone "working on the show" (with those same quotes). It's not like they were handing out posters saying "Makes fun of Alcohol Abuse, Religion, and Divorce! Promotes Homosexuality! Has a dancing cat!"

I think your spicy lemonade has the wrong grade of syrup in it. Are you using the A-grade syrup?

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 5:42pm

I get it, artscallion.

I realize the phrase "makes fun of" does not modify "promotes homosexuality." Once you read the "makes fun of" it cues you as to the type of material about to follow, and the second phrase just continues describing the play. All of it sounds like PR descriptive blurb.

The grammar is correct if you read it as "It makes fun of religion, divorce, alcohol abuse and (it) promotes homosexuality" with the (it) being understood. The two intended verbs "makes" and "promotes" refer to their separate clauses, so the spelling of "promotes" is correct. It is the spelling of promotes (in the same tense as "makes") that alerts you to the existence of the understood word "it."

Thank you for the cloud. Clouds are lovely.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 5:46pm

Can be a case of someone just being too literal with the word "promotes" when something more vernacular like "celebrates" would have worked better.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 5:50pm

What in heaven's name are you blathering on about?

[Kad]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 5:58pm

In the context of the offending paragraph, "celebrates homosexuality" still isn't any less offensive.

Particularly following "makes fun of religion, alcohol abuse, and divorce".

The connotation is that it is NOT GOOD that the play does that. Why? Because it's NOT GOOD that the play is making fun of Odessa, Texas. It thereby follows that it's NOT GOOD that it's making fun of those things OR promoting homosexuality.

[Robbie]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 6:16pm

RE: The PMs w/ ghostlight2

Although we have both given each other permission to post our PM exchange, neither of us will. In additional to my insulting remarks, there is a personal disclosure that doesn't belong in this forum.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 6:29pm

The grammar is creating your confusion, Kad.

Not the grammar of there being an understood "it" in the phrase, that grammar is okay.

It is the grammar mix-up of the trying to combine the two ideas of what is not good and why and having that so close to the clause which describes the play.

Robbie appears to be saying two different things. First, that there was a wrong done to Odessa people financially and that they are being made fun of as stupid. Second, he is giving a description of the play to add as information. By combining these things instead of separating them out better you picked up a misperception that he is saying the play is not good because it "promotes homosexuality". He also does not seem to be saying the play is not good because it makes fun of religion, alcohol abuse or divorce. Those are reasons people run to see plays, after all. I read it that he is just trying to give identifying info about the play. The grammar mistake is lumping the different ideas of the financial matters and betrayal of trust he is apparently concerned about with the descriptive terms of the play which may lead you to believe he is against the descriptive terms.

He's gay, he's not anti-homosexual. You have to add common sense.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 6:34pm

Yes, Robbie, I sensed that was the case way back.

Which is why I have been trying to get these guys off your case and I would agree it has no place on here.

Some people can read between the lines, but apparently few.

[gvendo2005]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 6:57pm

People like ghostlight2 are the reason the theatrical industry has a reputation of being too closed off. Develop a thicker skin, wouldja please? I've only been in this business for five years and been called far worse things with far less provocation.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 6:59pm

I'm admiring your burnished crocodile skin, gvendo2005.

Handsome.

[gvendo2005]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 7:03pm

^ I don't know whether to call that a compliment or creepy. So, I'll settle for a compliment. Thanks, I guess?

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 7:06pm

Compliment.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 8:27pm

If only your comprehension were equal to your condescension.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 8:39pm

That suit frankly fits you better, RT.

You went off on the homophobia nonsense boat.

[gvendo2005]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 9:40pm

Reginald would make a brilliant songwriter. That's a nice line, if he can make it scan to a melody.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 9:42pm

Or make it actually rhyme.

[gvendo2005]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 9:44pm

Eh, comprehension / condescension... it's roughly a 9, 9.5 in my book.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 8/4/11 at 9:47pm

Nope.

Lacks internal rhyme.