What is it with puppet shows winning best musical?

Posted: 8/9/04 at 2:21pm

Updated On: 8/11/04 at 02:21 PM

[ujculbe]

Posted: 8/9/04 at 2:23pm

What is it with closeted, Republicans, investment bankers posting on this board??

Just kidding :)

(a joke taken from the Tony-award winner)

[timote316]

Posted: 8/9/04 at 2:23pm

Well, if they are the best shows of the year, they win the Tony.

Sorry for a rather blunt answer, but its true. The best show is the one that wins. (and by best, I mean in the voter's eyes, Wicked should have won!)

[FinnFanatic]

Posted: 8/9/04 at 2:24pm

Just wondering-

Have you seen Avenue Q?

[magruder]

Posted: 8/9/04 at 2:25pm

Hey, not always...Carnival lost to How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying in 1962.

[timote316]

Posted: 8/9/04 at 2:28pm

That's why I said in the voter's eyes. Many times shows/actors get snubbed (i.e. Wicked, Tonya Pinkins, etc.)

Posted: 8/9/04 at 2:29pm

Updated On: 8/11/04 at 02:29 PM

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 8/9/04 at 2:32pm

It's just a coincidence. And two Best Musical six years apart hardly suggests a trend.

Besides, Avenue Q deserved to win!

[FinnFanatic]

Posted: 8/9/04 at 2:33pm

I'm not getting defensive (sorry if it came off that way), I just wanted to know before I replied to your post.

As for why I asked about Avenue Q and not The Lion King: I have not seen the Lion King, nor do I have any desire to, so I wouldn't make any comments on it. I also think RAGTIME should've won over the LION KING, and that is part of the reason why I have no desire to see it.

I was asking about AVENUE Q because it is more than just a "puppet show". It is a very original take on a lifestyle that many people can relate to. The book is very cleverly written, as is the score, and the actors never fail to give amazing performances.

[kissmycookie]

Posted: 8/9/04 at 2:35pm

Well, the puppeteers in both shows do double duty. To remain in character with the puppet they are portraying (especially in the multi-dutied roles in Avenue Q), while portraying the resulting emotions on their faces and in their body language. Hand/face/voice coordination.

Perhaps it's to award innovation or recognizing something that's more avant garde than usual.

Or they bought off the producers who vote.

I was conflicted about the Ragtime/Lion King battle.

I did agree with the Avenue Q win.

Posted: 8/9/04 at 2:46pm

Updated On: 8/11/04 at 02:46 PM

[kissmycookie]

Posted: 8/9/04 at 2:55pm

It's hard to say. Wicked is more of a "traditional" musical. It just happens to upend the whole premise of the Wizard of Oz story by exploring the backstory. And with the annual showing of the Wizard of Oz, there'll always be interest in Wicked.

With Avenue Q, it definitely plays to a younger audience (I'd say the 16-35 age group). And it takes another cultural icon, Sesame Street, and turns it on it's head. Conceptually, it's brilliant. What if Sesame Street grew up and had to deal with "adult" themes? It would only get dated, when a generational shift happens.

[FinnFanatic]

Posted: 8/9/04 at 2:55pm

I think WICKED will have a longer life. If not for anything else than for the huge spectacle that it is (don't get me wrong, I enjoy WICKED very much, but I do understand that it has several flaws that are masked by a huge production). Yes, AVENUE Q has several NYC references, but I am not from the city and I still found them to be very funny. The thing about AVENUE Q that I fear may make it unaccessible to future generations is how it very much relates to the PRESENT time. "George Bush" is only for now, etc. It also has several "pop culture" references "The theme from FRIENDS", "The theme from TITANIC", etc. I wonder if future generations will find these references to be as funny as we do.

WICKED also appeals to a LARGER audience. Young children can be enthralled by the show. AVENUE Q is more for the older crowd....but not too old. It seems like it would have a much narrower fan base (I know, there are those grandparents who LOVE it, but how often do they come along?)

There are my two cents. Summary: WICKED will have a longer life than AVENUE Q, but CAROLINE, OR CHANGE should've outlived them both Updated On: 8/9/04 at 02:55 PM

[kissmycookie]

Posted: 8/9/04 at 2:59pm

The fact that Wicked is a spectacle, however, could also undermine it on tour, since it takes a lot of effort and manpower to put together and dismantle the set. Would they have to reconceive aspects of the set for the national tour?

[judy_in_disguise]

Posted: 8/9/04 at 3:01pm

......and here we go again.

[BwayTheatre11]

Posted: 8/9/04 at 3:01pm

Which show (Avenue Q, Wicked) do you think has the longest life span? Not for it's original production run, but I mean which show will most of America be framilliar with in twenty years.

Which do you think would do better in a national tour?

Like I said, I've not seen Avenue Q, but someone told me there is a lot of 'inside jokes' that only New Yorkers would get. I don't know if that's true or not, just what someone told me.


Eric, what do all of those points you made have to do with a Tony award?

Updated On: 8/9/04 at 03:01 PM

[KMF_NYC]

Posted: 8/9/04 at 3:03pm

As much as I hate to admit it -- Wicked will have the longer "shelf" life with it tie to TWOZ -- at the point it's rights become available, there will be theaters both professional and community clamoring to do it -- some well and some not so well I am sure).

I think Q will have amore difficult time making it's transition into a more mainstream crowd...again, sad to say

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 8/9/04 at 3:04pm

I'm curious to know what all the inside jokes regarding NY are. Jarico and I found the show hilarious and neither of us are from NY (it was his first trip). I saw both Lion King and Ragtime on Broadway and it was easy to see why Lion King won. Though its book and score were not as strong as Ragtime (though Ragtime did have some severe book problems), it was far more unique and innovative. Ragtime was also staged poorly. It flip-flopped between being a spectacle and a minimalist show (the empty-stage scenes did not work well on the mammoth stage) with chorus members crammed in stairwells while the stage is virtually empty and dull choreography. The Lion King was a much more vivid and energetic production with brilliant staging, choreography, sets, constumes and lighting to create something completely different than we have witnessed on Broadway, yet with the familiarity of a much-loved Disney film and probably the most breathtaking opening in a Broadway musical (including receiving standing ovations just for the Circle of Life number). The added music was beautifully written and arranged. The show left a lasting impression on me while Ragtime did not. It probably did the same with most of the Tony voters.

The Magdelene Sisters was a very good film, but very disturbing. I liked it a lot, but other than a couple of actresses, didn't consider it Oscar-calibre, but then, not every good movie means it is Oscar-worthy.

PS - Avenue Q and Lion King are not "puppet shows". They are Broadway musicals that use various forms of puppetry. Big difference.

Updated On: 8/9/04 at 03:04 PM

[BwayTheatre11]

Posted: 8/9/04 at 3:05pm

Like I just said...what does that have to do with a Tony award win?

[mominator]

Posted: 8/9/04 at 3:10pm

Another 2 cents worth. Having seen both shows (Q and Wicked)
IMHO, the right show won best musical. Wickeds' second act leaves plot holes you could drive a truck through.
Q may be aimed at a youger audience ( I am 41 and my husbad is 45) We laughed ourselves silly, because we saw not only ourselves 20 years ago but our children today. we made our way
somehow through those first few years after college and came out
fine and so will our kids.
So in the words of Kate, Princeton, Gary and etal...
"Don't stress. Relax. Let life rool off your back..."

[CurtainUp]

Posted: 8/9/04 at 3:16pm

I think, despite the pop culture references, Q is timeless in a sense. What girl hasn't felt like Katemonster whethere it be a mom or a teen? Me and my parents both loved Q. Besides puppets, it has great music, witty lyrics and sympathetic characters. I think these characters, though puppets, are the most human on Broadway. To quote a theatre loving friend of mine, "How sad is it that on all the characters on Broadway I can relate to a puppet the most?" - I think that says something.

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 8/9/04 at 3:29pm

Wicked will definitley last longer. It has much more of a family oriented storyline, and word of mouth has made it the most popular show on Broadway. Its a perfect example of how critics (who gave Wicked mixed reviews) sometimes dont influence the people who are planning to see it. I think that critics were surprised that Wicked had the stamina to overcome so-so reviews and emerge as this year's biggest smash. Avenue Q will most likely run for 4 or 5 more years, but it will just die out while Wicked will remain on Broadway for at least 11-12 years. Avenue Q won the Tony, whether we like it or not, and me of all people was the most upset, but Wicked is still going strong and in all honesty, thats all that matters.

[mominator]

Posted: 8/9/04 at 3:36pm

What made Q even more relevent for us was our 20 year old daughter just got married to a guy much like Princeton (Even a BA in English!)
WiCkEDrOcKs, is that your pet guinie pig (sp?) So cute!

Posted: 8/9/04 at 3:40pm

"I have not seen the Lion King, nor do I have any desire to, so I wouldn't make any comments on it. I also think RAGTIME should've won over the LION KING, and that is part of the reason why I have no desire to see it. " FinnFanatic

Ignoring for a moment that it's rather presumptuous to make a comparative judgement with something you haven't seen, do you see what you just wrote? You say explicitly that you won't make comments on something, and then turn around in the very next sentence and do just that.

[Plum]

Posted: 8/9/04 at 3:42pm

Dismissing Avenue Q and The Lion King as "mere" puppet shows is kind of insulting- I don't know about TLK since I haven't seen it, but in Avenue Q the puppets are a means to an end, not the whole point of the show. And besides, puppets aren't just for kids- I'm pretty sure Indonesian wayang isn't.

As for which show will last longer...it's too early to tell. A lot of shows that look like smashes end up not lasting. Thoroughly Modern Mille, anyone? On the other hand, as much as I love Avenue Q, I can see it aging quite quickly. But then again, Rent shows the wonder of shows with low running costs and young casts, so who knows. Updated On: 8/9/04 at 03:42 PM