What is the best show of all time?- Page 3

[Spiritoflaw]

Posted: 9/6/04 at 11:40pm

Does Bernstein's "Candide" qualify, or is it considered more under classical music, or both?

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 9/6/04 at 11:41pm

Hair has a great, extremely influential score, but is overall a LOUSY, unrevivable show (the book is painfully bad). The last revival back in the 70's flopped badly, lasting exactly a month. It's important because it's the first real hit rock musical, but unless someone writes a completely new book, we'll never see it again on Broadway.

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 9/6/04 at 11:45pm

I pretty much based my list on numbers and facts, to my knowledge. I would of course agree to add a few of the R&H" classics" , Fantastics, A Chorus Line, West Side Story, etc. if we are talking about "classics" or long runners, for sure.

No way would I include Wicked or several others that have yet to have a history as "worlds best" category. Just my view, folks.

Updated On: 9/6/04 at 11:45 PM

[NoDayButToday2]

Posted: 9/6/04 at 11:46pm

too difficult to answer-- musicals are so unique and all have something i love about them...

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 9/6/04 at 11:47pm

"Candide" has arguably Bernstein's best score (or at least a close second to "West Side Story"), but the book has always been an issue. Prince's 1974 revival with a heavily revised book was a brilliant marriage of music and tour-de-force direction and was a huge hit, but the last revival a few years ago (also directed by Prince) flopped badly after only a few months. Personally I love the show, but, despite Bernstein's genius, I don't think I would objectively put it on a top ten or even fifteen list.

[Derek2]

Posted: 9/6/04 at 11:48pm

No no, I didnt mean that Wicked is the best, however I do believe it brought some spice to broadway. my list is really made up of the shows that wont be forgotten

[GovernorSlaton]

Posted: 9/6/04 at 11:49pm

Then add Caroline to your list.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/6/04 at 11:50pm

WCKLYN

[Derek2]

Posted: 9/6/04 at 11:52pm

True. I dont think Caroline will be forgotten. I still dont know why its clossing

[leomaxfrank]

Posted: 9/6/04 at 11:56pm

Oklahoma is certainly influential in many ways...definitely belongs on the list.

The Hair issue is an interesting one - Yes it's certainly a period piece and the book is pretty horrible, considering a lot of it was adlib originally. After directing the show though, I think it could be brought back and be successful today - it would just take a certain director to give it a great vision. It is just some of the best music to listen to and certainly in any Top 10 list of influential shows.

Candide is great, but not great enough - lovely score - but still Bernstein's second best.

Updated On: 9/6/04 at 11:56 PM

[Tiny-Toon]

Posted: 9/7/04 at 12:01am

LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS

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http://www.BrooklynTheMusical.info

[Tiny-Toon]

Posted: 9/7/04 at 12:02am

DRACULA THE MUSICAL

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http://www.BrooklynTheMusical.info

[Tiny-Toon]

Posted: 9/7/04 at 12:04am

Brooklyn The Musical

And yes.. i saw it in denver Updated On: 9/7/04 at 12:04 AM

[bronxboundexpress]

Posted: 9/7/04 at 12:04am

BOMBAY DREAMS

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 9/7/04 at 12:06am

I agree, I'd certainly put "Hair" on any list of top influential shows (not necessarily BEST, but it certainly changed Broadway forever). And you're right about how a truly visionary director (given free reign by Rado and Ragni) could possibly turn it into something special. A couple of my best director friends have been dying to get their hands on it for years (we've talked about all sorts of interesting innovative staging concepts for the show). I think, because of all of the book issues and lack of character development, it's truly evolved into a real "director's show" at this point -- I'd love to see a young, really smart director (I'm not sure who off the top of my head) really transform it into something playable for today's audiences. The score is too brilliant to only be done as a concert piece.

Updated On: 9/7/04 at 12:06 AM

[leomaxfrank]

Posted: 9/7/04 at 12:16am

how about Calhoun?

[observer]

Posted: 9/7/04 at 12:17am

I'm no expert on every musical as many of you seem to be, but since the question originally posed seemed to be one of personal opinion, my vote goes to Ragtime. It has a bit of everything (history, social commentary, humor, tragedy, sweetness, cruelty-- even both happy and sad endings) tied together with a soaring score that I believe will stand the test of time. The show seems to energize audiences, and I have never failed to see it receive a standing O.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 9/7/04 at 12:30am

Calhoun might be a very interesting pick -- seems to be roughly the right age and "Big River" demonstrated that he understands how to re-think an established musical work and stage it for the better.

Jerry Mitchell's name always seems to come up in these sorts of discussions, but while he's certainly young and gifted, I wonder if he's too "showbiz" and "pizzazz" for "Hair"?

George Wolfe is always interesting, but can sometimes be too somber and intellectual for the material ("Wild Party" and "On The Town" should have had more dance and energy -- Mitchell would have probably been a better fit for both).

Sam Mendes is an interesting thought, just looking at what he did with "Cabaret."

Leveaux is, I think, much better with plays (and solid texts) than musicals -- "Hair" in his hands sounds like a disaster.

Most other Broadway directors are, I think, a little too old-fashioned in their sensibility. There are some very talented people who work off-Boradway and regionally, but while they may have the right sensibility, they generally don't have much experience with an $8 - 10 million revival.

[leomaxfrank]

Posted: 9/7/04 at 12:37am

yes it is..as you just proved, very difficult.

i don't love Wolfe's work all the time. i feel his staging and vision is a little inconsistent. some great - some garbage.

and i feel Mitchell would completely ruin it. though he's gifted, i personally don't like his choreography - it would almost certainly be too dancy for this. Hair is certainly a more free-spirited individual movement piece than a visually choreographed show.

Mendes - possibly.

I think the book is too weak for Leveaux to play with and create his own unless - like you said - Rado gave him something new to work with. However, Rado is a complete burnout...

I still like Calhoun. He's edgy, smart and young...could work!
Call the Nederlanders and tell them our plan :)

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 9/7/04 at 3:19am

Only an infant would believe there's a BEST show. To me, they are all different and lovable in their seperate ways, and I don't have really have a favourite. Then again, in my opinion, Tanz der Vampire beats a lot of the stuff that's been done in Broadway in the last twenty years. It has everything... great chorus, stamina, talent, extravagant score, a time-capsule of the last three-hundred years of music. It's just totally NOT what it was on Broadway. Sweeney Todd would have to follow it, if not equal with it, but it's the best thing (easily) I have ever heard on Broadway. I know a lot of great shows, as well, that have never made it to NY, but they could fry the pants off of the last five seasons EASILY. Which goes to shame, that Broadway should be ashamed of not investing in undiscovered talent. Such is life

[badkarma719]

Posted: 9/7/04 at 3:56am

Ahhh the window closed and I lost all of what I was saying GRRRRR

I think Margo ALWAYS makes a valid point

but I think we are also forgeting about one of the most influencial writers of Broadway

George M Cohan
(I know I have posted about him a few times this past week but here is my huge post to actually attempt to get him on that list

I know that every single person had sung at least one Cohan song

a short bio:
This great American song and dance man spent 56 of his 64 years on the stage. During his lifetime, he wrote 40 plays, collaborated with others on another 40 plays, and shared production of still another 150 plays. He made over a 1000 appearances as an actor. Some of the more than 500 songs that he wrote were major national hits.

the well knowns are as followed:
"The Yankee Doodle Boy" (aka "I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy")
"Give My Regards To Broadway"
'Forty Five Minutes From Broadway'
"You're A Grand Old Flag" George Washinton Jr
"Over There"- writen about the headlines in the paper for WW1 on the train that was 45 min from b-way and was performed in the New Amsterdam Theatre


George M. Cohan died on Nov. 5, 1942. President Roosevelt wired "A beloved figure is lost to our national life."


I hope you all will read up on Cohan he is an awsome influence on b-way

the site I found about Cohan

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 9/7/04 at 11:16am

No one denies Cohan's influence on Broadway as a songwriter and impresario, however, he never created one show that could objectively be termed as great (which is the point of this thread). The musical in his era was far more concerned with big production numbers and spectacle than with integrating music and dance to tell a story and propel it forward. In Cohan's time, books were an afterthought -- no real character development and the plots were threadbare and perfunctory at best (often "plot" consisted of a bunch of jokes and vignettes used to break up the musical numbers and give the stagehands time to change the set).

There's a reason we very rarely see any of the early shows from the 1910's and 1920's of Cohan or Irving Berlin or Cole Porter or the Gershwins or Rodgers and Hart -- while many of the shows contain classic songs, the books were very mediocre by today's standards, with no attempt being made for the songs in the show to spring organically from plot and character -- something we've come to expect in the last 70+ years (unless the show is specifically revue). After "Showboat" in 1927, the book musical grew up and the artform changed for the better.

While "Little Johnny Jones," perhaps Cohan's best show, was certainly popular in its day and contained some very famous songs, it's not much of a musical (the Donny Osmond revival back in the 80's ran exactly ONE performance on Broadway). Cohan was the primary exponent of a type of old-fashioned musical comedy that became obsolete after "Showboat," "Porgy and Bess" and "Oklahoma" -- which pointed musical theatre into new, bolder directions, fully integrating music with plot and dance and serious subject matter and once creative people (and audiences) saw all the new posibilities of the form, they never looked back (though there are occasional exceptions, i.e. Mamma Mia).

[magruder]

Posted: 9/7/04 at 11:57am

How about Graciella Danielle (for Hair)? Where is she, anyway?

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 9/7/04 at 12:09pm

Danielle would also be an interesting pick. Haven't heard much from her in the last couple of years.

[jayem1968]

Posted: 9/7/04 at 1:43pm

Sweeney Todd