When Phantom had 2 tours...

[ShowOff2008]

Posted: 8/6/08 at 11:19pm

I have often wondered that when phantom had two tours out, was one smaller? I think it can only play large houses, and i remember seeing both the 2nd and 3rd national tour but could not tell the difference a the time. I know the one and only us national tour now looks just like the broadway company so..? just curious...does any one know the answer to this or would like to comment..i know the wicked 2nd national is said to be scaled back a bit..

[winston89]

Posted: 8/6/08 at 11:32pm

I think that Phantom only had more then one touring company to cover more ground. This was when the show was a hot ticket on Broadway and more and more people wanted to see it then they do now. As time went on, they stopped having the many touring companines. And, then went on to just having one.

[BrianS]

Posted: 8/7/08 at 1:38am

not just for Phantom, but the second company of a tour isn't a smaller or modified show to fit smaller venues, but the same full sized show. The purpose is to maximize profit because they feel they can hit the major cities in rotation with two (or more) tours without bleeding through their potential audience base.

As for scaling down a show, it is later in a run when a tour make make cuts to be smaller and less expensive to operate (so a First National could be scaled back later in it's run). Change a few sets into backdrops and all of a sudden you have 1 semi instead of 2 to travel around the country. The quality of the experience isn't as good, but since you may have lower ticket sales in the later years, this allows for lower operating costs allowing the tour to stay profitable and run longer.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 8/7/08 at 2:57am

I know the one and only us national tour now looks just like the broadway company so..?

In my opinion it actually doesn't. I just saw it twice in San Diego and there were a few little things I noticed that were sort of scaled down. The chandelier is cut in half. The lights don't go all the way around. It just covers what the audience sees of it. The boxes are less elaborate, the metal bars at the back of the lair appear to be foldable and the Phantom's staff that shoots fireballs just shoots cheap flash paper on tour. The staff used in the Broadway production is more impressive.

[TonyVincent]

Posted: 8/7/08 at 9:59am

I know at Rent's peak of popularity/maturity they had something like 5 tours, a few in the US and a few abroad, and AFAIK it was all the same stage version on the same scale.

[ThankstoPhantom]

Posted: 8/7/08 at 11:05am

The Phantom's "Raoul" Company, which opened in Chicago, was the 2NT (although, personally, I feel it was the 1NT, as the "official" first one only played LA and San Fransisco over the course of about 10 years!).

The 2NT opened in 1991 or 1992 (can't remember at the moment.) It was a tad larger than the current 3NT (Music Box Company) which is still running today. The 3NT (1995) has all the same sets and scenery as every other production, but it can certainly fit a little more comfortably in every theatre (although it is still massive). An example is that the chandelier is smaller, as are the candelabras in the Phantom's lair.

If the "fireball" staff is less elaborate on tour it may be due to different pyrotechnic laws across the country (this is my theory, please correct me if I am wrong). I do know that in the late 1990s, the fireballs were tamed in all American productions (at the very least).

[puppet]

Posted: 8/7/08 at 11:17am

The fireballs are definitely under local fire laws. Any fire, explosion etc. can only be used under local laws.

[puppet]

Posted: 8/7/08 at 11:17am

The fireballs are definitely under local fire laws. Any fire, explosion etc. can only be used under local laws.

[winston89]

Posted: 8/7/08 at 2:02pm

I am pretty sure that there are different lawas in different places regarding the whole fire ball thing. So I am sure it changes from city to city on the tour.

[ShowOff2008]

Posted: 8/7/08 at 2:38pm

Hmm..Yeah I just saw it in NYC too and really truly did not find much of a difference...the chandelier in the tour seems like same size.Not sure aboutt he lights going all around the back, didnt seem to notice. Only thing I noticed was the use of trap doors at the start of POTO and the roof and also the lightning at the end of All I Ask of You reprise...on broadway however i noticed that the phantom did not fall into a trap this at the end of masquarade (as i have seen him go down in the past on broadway). All very interesting.

[EponineAmneris]

Posted: 8/7/08 at 3:03pm

Interesting reading... Wish I had something to add, but I don't. Thank you for this!!!

[tourboi]

Posted: 8/7/08 at 4:54pm

not just for Phantom, but the second company of a tour isn't a smaller or modified show to fit smaller venues, but the same full sized show. The purpose is to maximize profit because they feel they can hit the major cities in rotation with two (or more) tours without bleeding through their potential audience base.

As for scaling down a show, it is later in a run when a tour make make cuts to be smaller and less expensive to operate (so a First National could be scaled back later in it's run). Change a few sets into backdrops and all of a sudden you have 1 semi instead of 2 to travel around the country. The quality of the experience isn't as good, but since you may have lower ticket sales in the later years, this allows for lower operating costs allowing the tour to stay profitable and run longer.

This is true, and not true. It's a show-by-show basis.

When MAMMA MIA sent out it's second tour (the one still out there) it was SEVERELY scaled down. No raked stage, no moon, no huge light truss at the end, no hydrollic lift for the boardwalk, etc. It was scaled down specifically to go to smaller markets and be able to afford shorter runs.

[BrianS]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 4:03am

tourboi, i think you are confusing the fact that i was addressing the difference between a second company and a second tour. they may scale back a first national or launch a scaled back second national, but i have never heard of a case where there was a second company on the road at the same time as the first with significant differences between them. that was the initial question in this thread.

[TechEverlasting]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 9:08am

One significant difference between the Raoul and Music Box companies of Phantom was the size of the orchestra. (In general you can spot a cut-down tour by the smaller number of musicians in the pit.) I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but I think the Music Box tour added a third synthesizer and cut 7 musicians from the Raoul tour's configuration. I believe Music Box now travels with 12 musicians, but in larger cities extra local players are added.

[tourboi]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 1:06pm

A second company is the same thing as a second national, and again I have to cite MAMMA MIA because both companies were traveling at the same time (for a while, too). And physically, there were (as I said) huge differences in the production.

Ditto LION KING, two companies, essentially they were the same size, but one was considered the "second national" because it went out... second.

Like I said, it's different on a show by show basis.
Updated On: 8/8/08 at 01:06 PM

[Fosse76]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 1:48pm

By the time the third national company opened, they were able to use more light-weight materials for touring, allowing for shorter engagements since load-in and set-up were much quicker. The second national company had to sit down for three or four months minimum because of the costs of touring.

And generally speaking, the official tours aren't usually officiall called tours, they are called "national companies."

[george95]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 1:48pm

I posted a review of the Phantom tour when I saw it Chicago last Christmas. I focused on the differences between Broadway and the tour, so you might find this interesting. Originally posted on the Chicago board.

Here it is:

As a former Chicagoan now living in NYC, and as a total Phantom phanatic, I am lucky to get to see the original 1988 production alllllllll the time.
However when I went home for Christmas, I talked my friends into seeing the tour in Chicago. (I hadnt seen the tour since 1998 at the Lyric Opera) Now that I am so intimately familiar with the Broadway production of Phantom, I was curious to see just how different the tour was.

Well let me just say in general the tour was fantastic. Phantom, Christine, Madame Giry, even the managers were strong-voiced and clear. The only one who was bad was Meg---she sounded so nervous. My friends are all musicians so they cringed every time she had to sing. But there were a lot of lyrics (especially by Madame Giry and the managers) that get mumbled night after night on broadway but were clearly heard at the Cadillac Palace.
When I first walked in, my heart kind of sank to see the Phantom stage in such a huuuuuuuuge theater. The thing around the stage (whats it called anyway) with the angels and gold look so weird and out of place. It fits so perfectly and naturally into the Majestic theater in New York.

Its funny how the set pieces on the tour dont even come close to fitting the stage, and I was surprised at how the set pieces rolled on and offstage instead of coming up through trap doors. And the actors too used fewer trap doors.
On the other hand, the chandelier fell much faster than on Broadway since it had a longer way to travel, but, the people on stage who catch it came out way too early.........they were standing there for what seemed like ages while it fell, whereas on Broadway they just quickly appear right as the chandlier hits the stage.

[Phantom of London]

Posted: 8/9/08 at 8:29pm

I have seen Phantom in New York and London and definitely prefer the one at the Majestic as the theatre is just right.

[erinrebecca]

Posted: 8/9/08 at 8:41pm

"I know at Rent's peak of popularity/maturity they had something like 5 tours, a few in the US and a few abroad, "

Not exactly. The Angel and Benny tours overlapped in the U.S. but there were never 'a few'. The Canadian production also overlapped. There were never five tours on at once. There were international productions which may have been at a similar time but with different producers, etc. so not the same thing. This would also be true of Phantom and many other shows which have had international productions.

The show was never scaled down in North America, even in the non-Eq productions.

[gypsy4]

Posted: 8/9/08 at 9:11pm

usualy the tour gets scaled down when it is nonequ.