#26
Posted: 4/10/08 at 12:11am
So Helena didn't have to sleep with Mr. Burton.
Even more props to her.
Even more props to her.
Why couldn't they have hired good singers for the SWEENEY movie? — Page 2
#27
Posted: 4/10/08 at 12:17am
Whew! Who knew a little thing like annunciation was so...holy!
At least I could have at least HEARD the woman better.
At least I could have at least HEARD the woman better.
#28
Posted: 4/10/08 at 1:06am
Maybe she meant annunciation like "to announce".
I certainly think Helena could've announced her lines much louder. Proclaimed then, even. Or brought them to the public's attention.
I certainly think Helena could've announced her lines much louder. Proclaimed then, even. Or brought them to the public's attention.
#29
Posted: 4/10/08 at 1:08am
Her singing is passable. But I agree her acting is a real highlight. From the final sequence until the end she is absolutely BRILLIANT.
#30
Posted: 4/10/08 at 1:20am
I much prefer a stronger actress who can manage to get through the songs than a strong singer who can't do anything with the material.
Emmy Rossum and Adam Pascal are two people from recent movie musicals who can sing (well, Rossum can sort of kinda sing) but that fell completely flat on screen. Neither of them had the acting necessary to truly make their films work.
Carter may not be my first choice when I want to listen to Mrs.Lovett's songs on my iPod, but she gave a scene-stealing, multi-layered, haunting portrayal as Mrs.Lovett. I went in disappointed that a Meryl Streep or a Toni Collette hadn't been cast, and by the time she muttered "A customer!" I was a convert. Couldn't care less about the singing, this Mrs.Lovett is one for the ages.
Emmy Rossum and Adam Pascal are two people from recent movie musicals who can sing (well, Rossum can sort of kinda sing) but that fell completely flat on screen. Neither of them had the acting necessary to truly make their films work.
Carter may not be my first choice when I want to listen to Mrs.Lovett's songs on my iPod, but she gave a scene-stealing, multi-layered, haunting portrayal as Mrs.Lovett. I went in disappointed that a Meryl Streep or a Toni Collette hadn't been cast, and by the time she muttered "A customer!" I was a convert. Couldn't care less about the singing, this Mrs.Lovett is one for the ages.
"Some people can thrive and bloom living life in a living room, that's perfect for some people of one hundred and five. But I at least gotta try, when I think of all the sights that I gotta see, all the places I gotta play, all the things that I gotta be at"
#31
Posted: 4/10/08 at 6:39am
Assuming that we're talking about enunciation - I had no problem understanding HBC and think she gave a great screen preformance. Would I like to see her do it on stage? Not if she did it in the same way, but for the film I think she was near-perfect. Though I can't help but wish we could have seen what Imelda Staunton would have made of it... 
I've no idea what happenned to Jayne Wisener (Johanna) though - I saw her in the Donmar's Parade and she was great, but she seems a little weak in Sweeney. Possibly the way she was directed to perform it?
I've no idea what happenned to Jayne Wisener (Johanna) though - I saw her in the Donmar's Parade and she was great, but she seems a little weak in Sweeney. Possibly the way she was directed to perform it?
Updated On: 4/10/08 at 06:39 AM
#32
Posted: 4/10/08 at 7:52am
I just watched it again on DVD last week.
The singing is "okay" and doesn't bother me, but the whispering sure as hell does.
SPEAK UP, people! There's a definite line between "quiet intensity" and "I CAN'T FRIGGIN' HEAR YOU" and they crossed it way too many times in this film.
A bad directorial decision. Helena in particular was told to "bring it down" by Burton many times during filming.
Not good direction to take it that far.
I should also add that my overall "disappointed" original take on the film has not changed. It's still a good movie... but it lacks in many areas. It's not a great movie, and it could have been.
The singing is "okay" and doesn't bother me, but the whispering sure as hell does.
SPEAK UP, people! There's a definite line between "quiet intensity" and "I CAN'T FRIGGIN' HEAR YOU" and they crossed it way too many times in this film.
A bad directorial decision. Helena in particular was told to "bring it down" by Burton many times during filming.
Not good direction to take it that far.
I should also add that my overall "disappointed" original take on the film has not changed. It's still a good movie... but it lacks in many areas. It's not a great movie, and it could have been.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#33
Posted: 4/10/08 at 8:03am
I love her performance.
#34
Posted: 4/10/08 at 8:18am
There are women out there who could have easily acted it just as well as HBC did and as an added bonus, actually been able to sing it. I just find it funny how many people fooled themselves into thinking it was so great just because it was Sondheim on the screen. Considering the amount of money this movie grossed , you really can't say that having cast big names in the lead roles helped the movie all that much. It was still Sondheim and Burton and that would have attracted enough attention on it's own. It could have probably made just as much money if they'd cast actors who would act AND sing.
#35
Posted: 4/10/08 at 8:49am
It was in Sondheim's contract that he had casting approval over Lovett, so with all those ladies in the running, he was the one who ultimately said OK.
I really liked the film and thought the tone was consistent and overall was extremely well done. I miss the "bigger" singing voices, but I have the all those recordings and the Lansbury/Hearn video to keep me happy.
I think we are long past looking at film versions of our favorite musicals as ever being "definitive." They are simply one other version of the material.
I really liked the film and thought the tone was consistent and overall was extremely well done. I miss the "bigger" singing voices, but I have the all those recordings and the Lansbury/Hearn video to keep me happy.
I think we are long past looking at film versions of our favorite musicals as ever being "definitive." They are simply one other version of the material.
#36
Posted: 4/10/08 at 9:15am
I'm not looking for "definitive." I'm looking for "successful" on its own terms.
And this film was lacking.
Successful:
Art direction
Costumes
Orchestrations
Visual FX
Lacking:
All vocals - nobody could really sing in this movie, except Laura Michelle Kelly who was told NOT to really sing. Nice.
All casting (Depp was great, but others like Daniel Day-Lewis and Russell Crowe would have been far better). Helena's acting was brilliant, and her singing was passable. Anthony was a total miscast in type and talent. Joanna was okay, but her voice was wobbly and in the limited amount of screentime she had, she showed a limited amount of acting ability. She looked the part, though. Rickman was too "swashbuckly" for the judge. I only liked Tobias, Pirelli and the Beadle for casting. The rest could have been much better.
Direction --- bad choices throughout. From cutting the chorus singing (not just the ballad) out of the movie. It makes it sterile and stagnant. The direction of the ending was/is an unfortunate mistake. Keeping Sweeney as a "one note" serial killer. Having the two leads whisper everything. Oh, I could go on and on. His direction overall was bad. The visuals were great throughout, but I credit the art director and costume designer for that. Burton, only marginally.
I understand what they were going for, but it fell short.
A good movie. Not a great one.
And this film was lacking.
Successful:
Art direction
Costumes
Orchestrations
Visual FX
Lacking:
All vocals - nobody could really sing in this movie, except Laura Michelle Kelly who was told NOT to really sing. Nice.
All casting (Depp was great, but others like Daniel Day-Lewis and Russell Crowe would have been far better). Helena's acting was brilliant, and her singing was passable. Anthony was a total miscast in type and talent. Joanna was okay, but her voice was wobbly and in the limited amount of screentime she had, she showed a limited amount of acting ability. She looked the part, though. Rickman was too "swashbuckly" for the judge. I only liked Tobias, Pirelli and the Beadle for casting. The rest could have been much better.
Direction --- bad choices throughout. From cutting the chorus singing (not just the ballad) out of the movie. It makes it sterile and stagnant. The direction of the ending was/is an unfortunate mistake. Keeping Sweeney as a "one note" serial killer. Having the two leads whisper everything. Oh, I could go on and on. His direction overall was bad. The visuals were great throughout, but I credit the art director and costume designer for that. Burton, only marginally.
I understand what they were going for, but it fell short.
A good movie. Not a great one.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#37
Posted: 4/10/08 at 9:33am
One of the things that I thought was really brilliant about the film was the heretofore unseen (based on the productions I've seen, anyway) take on Toby and Mrs. Lovett's relationship. I loved how it was framed that Mrs. Lovett saw Toby as a part of her hypothetical family with Sweeney. It added this entirely new, thrilling, heartbreaking dimension to "Not While I'm Around." Casting Toby as a child definitely helped, but I think Ms. Carter's acting in the scenes involving Toby is brilliant. There's a particular moment where you can see her resigning herself to the fact that he has to die that is so haunting and the one part of the movie that stuck with me afterwards.
#38
Posted: 4/10/08 at 9:39am
I agree. "Not While I'm Around" is the best scene in the movie. With his dark, soldier-like sincerity, beautiful voice, and her reaction to him, and his inevitable fate. Haunting and powerful. If only the rest of the movie could have lived up to that scene.
I take back my original remark about "nobody sings well" in this movie. TOBY sings well.
I take back my original remark about "nobody sings well" in this movie. TOBY sings well.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#39
Posted: 4/10/08 at 9:56am
Never like Helena.
"I saw Pavarotti play Rodolfo on stage and with his girth I thought he was about to eat the whole table at the Cafe Momus." - Dollypop
#40
Posted: 4/10/08 at 10:07am
I adored Carter. I was so disappointed in her casting because I thought there were better fits to the role, including all the ladies mentioned, though Streep was my tippety top choice (though Staunton would be great, Colette would've been perfect and age appropriate for Depp.) I love the acting choices she made and the look on her face on the "Throw the old woman out!" was the creepiest moment in the film for me. Her desperation to protect herself was ferocious. "Not While I'm Around" was so freaking amazing and the relationship between Lovett and Toby was beautifully captured thoughout. I loved that kid! He was great during "Pirelli's Miracle Elixir" and "God That's Good".
My only disappointments were the end. I didnt believe that Sweeney would spare the "sailor in the chest" any more than he'd spare the beadle. He'd been killing strangers for months. It is the only awkward moment and I couldnt get past it. At least on stage Johanna always escapes. Sweeney doesnt say, "okay, be on your way...gotta get downstairs now."
I hated both Lovett's and Sweeney's deaths. Why go so cartooney showing Lovett's face in the oven. What should've been a horrifying scene felt like an Itchy and Scratchy cartoon.
My only disappointments were the end. I didnt believe that Sweeney would spare the "sailor in the chest" any more than he'd spare the beadle. He'd been killing strangers for months. It is the only awkward moment and I couldnt get past it. At least on stage Johanna always escapes. Sweeney doesnt say, "okay, be on your way...gotta get downstairs now."
I hated both Lovett's and Sweeney's deaths. Why go so cartooney showing Lovett's face in the oven. What should've been a horrifying scene felt like an Itchy and Scratchy cartoon.
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#41
Posted: 4/10/08 at 10:24am
Helena's acting was fine. Did not care for her vocal perfomance. And not including the choral parts of the score just made the movie feel a bit flat for me. Also the exclusion of Toby's lines at the end of the show before he kills Todd bothered me. While not a bad movie (I thoght Depp was very good) it could have been better. That's just my opinion.
Just give the world Love. - S. Wonder
#42
Posted: 4/10/08 at 11:08am
best12bars: Well said. I completely agree with you. I sort of think that LMK should have been Lovett and Helena the Beggar Woman, if the latter was always going to sing badly on purpose.
I did like the movie, but I wish the vocals had been better.
I did like the movie, but I wish the vocals had been better.
Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!
Updated On: 4/10/08 at 11:08 AM
#43
Posted: 4/10/08 at 11:20am
There are women out there who could have easily acted it just as well as HBC did and as an added bonus, actually been able to sing it.
Who? And don't mention Broadway actresses because only a handful of them could have toned it down for film.
Who? And don't mention Broadway actresses because only a handful of them could have toned it down for film.
"Some people can thrive and bloom living life in a living room, that's perfect for some people of one hundred and five. But I at least gotta try, when I think of all the sights that I gotta see, all the places I gotta play, all the things that I gotta be at"
#44
Posted: 4/10/08 at 11:22am
Neither of their voices bothered me, and I think that Depp is only a marginally better singer than Carter. I don't really care about perfect vocal prowess in a musical unless the character is supposed to be with with perfect vocal prowess.
#45
Posted: 4/10/08 at 11:32am
at least Burton is spreading Sondheim's name to people who might have never listened to his music otherwise.
good lord, some of you are so picky!
this was a REAL movie... with REAL acting and REAL emotions and REAL connection.
this isn't like Hairspray or Chicago - you don't need the best singers. Helena acted her face off. it's a movie with music. not a Broadway musical.
enough said
good lord, some of you are so picky!
this was a REAL movie... with REAL acting and REAL emotions and REAL connection.
this isn't like Hairspray or Chicago - you don't need the best singers. Helena acted her face off. it's a movie with music. not a Broadway musical.
enough said
#46
Posted: 4/10/08 at 11:39am
Tim Burton's SWEENEY TODD is a masterpiece, easily the finest live action musical made in a generation. It puts the horrors of that Oscar-winning abomination to even more shame, and shows just how a great musical can be translated to great cinema.
Period.
Complaints about the singing? I'll take Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham Carter over Richard Gere and Renee Zellwegger any day. And so does anyone with anything approaching sense.
Period.
Complaints about the singing? I'll take Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham Carter over Richard Gere and Renee Zellwegger any day. And so does anyone with anything approaching sense.
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW
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#47
Posted: 4/10/08 at 11:39am
It's a TIM BURTON movie. of course it was gonna star Johnny and Helena.
To complain about their casting is like wondering why, during the 1970's, Woody Allen kept using Diane keatonand Tony Roberts over and over.
Of, for you younger folks, wondering why Judd Apatow keeps on casting Seth Rogen, Paul Rudd and Jonah Hill.
To complain about their casting is like wondering why, during the 1970's, Woody Allen kept using Diane keatonand Tony Roberts over and over.
Of, for you younger folks, wondering why Judd Apatow keeps on casting Seth Rogen, Paul Rudd and Jonah Hill.
#48
Posted: 4/10/08 at 11:40am
It's amusing that Jayne Wisener, Meryl Streep, Imelda Staunton, Cyndi Lauper, Emma Thompson, Annette Bening, and Toni Collette all were in the running for Mrs. Lovett but lost out to Helena.
Forgive me, but wasn't Janye Wisener the girl who played Johanna? I don't think she would've been up for Lovett as well.
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I chose, and my world was shaken- So what?
The choice may have been mistaken, The choosing was not... "Every day has the potential to be the greatest day of your life." - Lin-Manuel Miranda
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Forgive me, but wasn't Janye Wisener the girl who played Johanna? I don't think she would've been up for Lovett as well.
The choice may have been mistaken, The choosing was not... "Every day has the potential to be the greatest day of your life." - Lin-Manuel Miranda
#49
Posted: 4/10/08 at 11:45am
Bernadette auditioned as well, but looked like Depp's mama in her screen test.
Sondheim has never liked film musicals, and certainly has never liked the film versions of HIS musicals. He was fully involved with all the decisions made -- whether we like them or not, he approved all, and even made some lyric changes to smooth rough spots over.
Sondheim has never liked film musicals, and certainly has never liked the film versions of HIS musicals. He was fully involved with all the decisions made -- whether we like them or not, he approved all, and even made some lyric changes to smooth rough spots over.
#50
Posted: 4/10/08 at 2:18pm
Dancingthru -- oops, I don't know why Jayne ended up on that list. I copied and pasted from imdb without seeing that error.
Assuming that we're talking about enunciation
Yep, I think that's the word. Thanks!
Assuming that we're talking about enunciation
Yep, I think that's the word. Thanks!
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