#26
Posted: 1/19/06 at 6:02pm
It is a good score as long as you don't think about the show it is for.
Why is there an Electric Guitar in Lippa's WIld Party? — Page 2
#27
Posted: 1/19/06 at 6:05pm
Which score is that, BB?
#28
Posted: 1/19/06 at 6:13pm
Sorry, Lippa's Wild Party.
I really like some of the music, especially when Murney is singing it, but it just doesn't fit the material.
I really like some of the music, especially when Murney is singing it, but it just doesn't fit the material.
#29
Posted: 1/19/06 at 6:14pm
I love ALIX!
But, yeah, it doesn't quite.
Maybe it's me...but with the "tight-nit" cast and music - I felt like it was trying to be the next RENT or something...
Maybe that's because the producers were the same...not to mention half of the principle cast.
But, yeah, it doesn't quite.
Maybe it's me...but with the "tight-nit" cast and music - I felt like it was trying to be the next RENT or something...
Maybe that's because the producers were the same...not to mention half of the principle cast.
#30
Posted: 1/19/06 at 6:16pm
If Idina weren't in it, I imagine a lot of people would care less about the material.
#31
Posted: 1/19/06 at 6:24pm
That is probably true.
(Sort of like SWIWS...which was good...but only became popular because od Idina, sadly)
I think it is good, not great.
The music sounds the same from beginning to end...there is no progression.
It starts off at such a low tone that it has no where to go.
Lippa let the lyrics do the talking...LaChiusa allowed the music to tell as much of the stroy as the lyrics.
You can tell a lot about the characters based on the music...the vaudeville (beginning, etc.), the vibrant sexiness, the diva tones (for Eartha), the child's play song (My Best Friend, esp. "We share everything...")...it even has the "Summer Nights" style for "Eddie & Mae" (I hate bringin up Grease...but the scene always reminded me of that...and while we are on it, "Gold & Goldberg's opening vamp reminds me of "Mungojerrie & Rumpleteazer" from Cats)
Anyway, LaChiusa also used the theme of masks to make his show didatic (though not sure if he'd want that) on a much deeper level.
Every character at some point (some more obvious than others...and "Dolores" has hers in the monologue preceding "When It Ends") says something about their mask.
(Sort of like SWIWS...which was good...but only became popular because od Idina, sadly)
I think it is good, not great.
The music sounds the same from beginning to end...there is no progression.
It starts off at such a low tone that it has no where to go.
Lippa let the lyrics do the talking...LaChiusa allowed the music to tell as much of the stroy as the lyrics.
You can tell a lot about the characters based on the music...the vaudeville (beginning, etc.), the vibrant sexiness, the diva tones (for Eartha), the child's play song (My Best Friend, esp. "We share everything...")...it even has the "Summer Nights" style for "Eddie & Mae" (I hate bringin up Grease...but the scene always reminded me of that...and while we are on it, "Gold & Goldberg's opening vamp reminds me of "Mungojerrie & Rumpleteazer" from Cats)
Anyway, LaChiusa also used the theme of masks to make his show didatic (though not sure if he'd want that) on a much deeper level.
Every character at some point (some more obvious than others...and "Dolores" has hers in the monologue preceding "When It Ends") says something about their mask.
Updated On: 1/19/06 at 06:24 PM
#32
Posted: 1/19/06 at 6:30pm
I agree.
LaChiusa seems to be motivated by art, while Lippa's motivation seems to be pure entertainment. Every stitch of Lippa's Wild Party seems an attempt to impress, or entertain, in a mainstream way that just doesn't suit the piece. The score is less challenging than LaChiusa's, and therefore has more immediate appeal.
But LaChiusa's work is classic, and groundbreaking. Again, I don't think Lippa's work is bad (I love Out of the Blue) but it just isn't a perfect fit to the period, like LaChiusa's.
LaChiusa seems to be motivated by art, while Lippa's motivation seems to be pure entertainment. Every stitch of Lippa's Wild Party seems an attempt to impress, or entertain, in a mainstream way that just doesn't suit the piece. The score is less challenging than LaChiusa's, and therefore has more immediate appeal.
But LaChiusa's work is classic, and groundbreaking. Again, I don't think Lippa's work is bad (I love Out of the Blue) but it just isn't a perfect fit to the period, like LaChiusa's.
#33
Posted: 1/19/06 at 6:37pm
Well, I mean, Les Miz's score never exactly screams "rock" to me, BSO. It has it's moments where it absolutely has those stylings in it, and it obviously is more contemporary than whatever was being written in 1800s France, but then you have moments like "Do You Hear the People Sing?" and maybe "In My Life" that seem very stylistically different.
I'm just playing devil's advocate, I absolutely agree with what's been said about Lippa's The Wild Party. Fun listen, but doesn't seem to serve the show all that well, and I find LaChiusa's to be far superior.
But I'm just curious as to why we are so willing to accept it in one situation and not the other. Obviously Les Miz's score is contemporary at times as well, though vocally it's mostly legit or classical. It seems a bit "confused" as well, doesn't it?
I'm just playing devil's advocate, I absolutely agree with what's been said about Lippa's The Wild Party. Fun listen, but doesn't seem to serve the show all that well, and I find LaChiusa's to be far superior.
But I'm just curious as to why we are so willing to accept it in one situation and not the other. Obviously Les Miz's score is contemporary at times as well, though vocally it's mostly legit or classical. It seems a bit "confused" as well, doesn't it?
#34
Posted: 1/19/06 at 6:43pm
Les Mis has a more epic nature to it, and for that reason, I can get past the modern material. It has a timeless nature to it, where it's less about the time period and more about the themes. Make sense?
Wild Party is all about the time period. By using the music of the era, LaChiusa's creates a thrilling, almost environmental piece. But with its period setting, and non-period music, Lippa's show just seems thrown together and jumbled to me.
Wild Party is all about the time period. By using the music of the era, LaChiusa's creates a thrilling, almost environmental piece. But with its period setting, and non-period music, Lippa's show just seems thrown together and jumbled to me.
Updated On: 1/19/06 at 06:43 PM
#35
Posted: 1/19/06 at 6:50pm
Yes, that makes perfect sense, actually. I've always felt that Les Mis rang true, while Lippa's The Wild Party did not, though they both obviously have anachronistic musical stylings. But the fact that one is more of an actual period piece--well now I can put my finger on why I felt that way.
Updated On: 1/19/06 at 06:50 PM
#36
Posted: 1/19/06 at 6:54pm
BG - I know what you mean.
Because from the very beginning, Les Mis sets itself up as a rock opera - yes, a rock opera. In the original concept version, it's more Broadway-rock. (Trust me, even Rent couldn't be considered Rock music by Rock-enthusiasts.)
When I say rock (for a Broadway show) I mean somethin more stylized.
But, anyway, B&S had been knows for rock, not Broadway, is what I meant.
It's sort of the same thing for EVITA - really doesn't fit the time...the locale - yet it never trie to.
If you look at Lippa's lyrics (well, most of them are from the poem) they are in an early 20th century style. Then, the score sways in and out of the same style. (This is not event alking about flaws in the score as it pertains to telling the story.)
The problem is, the piece is very specific to a time-period - the way people thought, the way people acted. Racism, homophobia...the POEM WAS BANNED when it was first released (which is why Speigelman's version is called re-released or something).
Lippa's never proves to me that it is bordering some touchy subjects...subjects that, in their original form, were banned from the public.
LaChiusa's version (in the show - the CD, which is one of the most amazing recordings ever, is lacking the intensity and vibrant rawism of the stage play) is very gritty and should make you feel uncomfortable.
The only uncomfortable moment in Lippa's is watching a full grown woman pee.
Because from the very beginning, Les Mis sets itself up as a rock opera - yes, a rock opera. In the original concept version, it's more Broadway-rock. (Trust me, even Rent couldn't be considered Rock music by Rock-enthusiasts.)
When I say rock (for a Broadway show) I mean somethin more stylized.
But, anyway, B&S had been knows for rock, not Broadway, is what I meant.
It's sort of the same thing for EVITA - really doesn't fit the time...the locale - yet it never trie to.
If you look at Lippa's lyrics (well, most of them are from the poem) they are in an early 20th century style. Then, the score sways in and out of the same style. (This is not event alking about flaws in the score as it pertains to telling the story.)
The problem is, the piece is very specific to a time-period - the way people thought, the way people acted. Racism, homophobia...the POEM WAS BANNED when it was first released (which is why Speigelman's version is called re-released or something).
Lippa's never proves to me that it is bordering some touchy subjects...subjects that, in their original form, were banned from the public.
LaChiusa's version (in the show - the CD, which is one of the most amazing recordings ever, is lacking the intensity and vibrant rawism of the stage play) is very gritty and should make you feel uncomfortable.
The only uncomfortable moment in Lippa's is watching a full grown woman pee.
Updated On: 1/19/06 at 06:54 PM
#37
Posted: 1/19/06 at 6:55pm
P.S. I don't think I could listen to late-1800's French music for 3 hours.
#38
Posted: 1/19/06 at 6:59pm
Lol.
Evita is a great example. In the beginning, you know you are seeing a telling of a story. Sam with Les Mis. You know you are seeing a recreation of something classic in a modern context.
But Lippa never makes the same clear choice, and even if he did, it wouldn't fit the material. Modern/Rock-type scores really work best for epic storytelling. The poem of Wild Party is more about ideas than it is about story and plot. Evita and Les Mis are so much about their plot and therefore, you are able to play with the sounds you use to tell the story.
Evita is a great example. In the beginning, you know you are seeing a telling of a story. Sam with Les Mis. You know you are seeing a recreation of something classic in a modern context.
But Lippa never makes the same clear choice, and even if he did, it wouldn't fit the material. Modern/Rock-type scores really work best for epic storytelling. The poem of Wild Party is more about ideas than it is about story and plot. Evita and Les Mis are so much about their plot and therefore, you are able to play with the sounds you use to tell the story.
#39
Posted: 1/19/06 at 7:03pm
One more point.
I think TWP is a terrible idea for a musical.
Let me rephrase. I think it is an awesome idea.
Confused?
Well, it just screams musicalization. Trouble is, as proved, toursists don't care. No one in the show is really likeable...and to make a character more likeable (something I think Lippa tried to do) destroys the integrity of the piece.
I think it would make a great opera though. Imagine Burrs singing about killing Queenie in Italian.
I think TWP is a terrible idea for a musical.
Let me rephrase. I think it is an awesome idea.
Confused?
Well, it just screams musicalization. Trouble is, as proved, toursists don't care. No one in the show is really likeable...and to make a character more likeable (something I think Lippa tried to do) destroys the integrity of the piece.
I think it would make a great opera though. Imagine Burrs singing about killing Queenie in Italian.
#40
Posted: 1/19/06 at 7:07pm
It is a tricky piece, as you're never quite sure who the antagonist is. Though, that's probably what I like most about it. But in terms of selling tickets, it's a tough sell getting people to see a show where they probably won't like any of the characters.
#41
Posted: 1/19/06 at 7:07pm
Well, tourists don't seem to care about a LOT of great shows, and a lot of great ideas for musicals. So yes, a great idea and a terrible idea at the same time, but half the great ideas, I think, are "terrible" as well anyway. The fact that they're so daring and such hard sells is almost what makes them so great.
Updated On: 1/19/06 at 07:07 PM
#42
Posted: 1/19/06 at 7:12pm
Well, obviously, I love it.
It's hard to say - WE HAVE SOMETHING EVERYONE CAN RELATE TO!
You a crack whore?
Meet Jackie!
You a scorned diva on the fritz?
Meet Dolores!
You a wife-beater?
Meet Burrs!
You a tramp?
Meet Kate!
You a wooden womanizer?
Meet Black!
You a lusty lesbian?
Meet Madaleine!
You a post-modernist scary lesbian?
Meet Sally!
You a conniving Jew looking to use, abuse, and not hire?
Meet Gold (and Goldberg)!
You a little girl that want to meet a big boy?
Meet Nadine!
You a fighter lookin' for a good fight?
Meet Eddie!
You have no remorse when you cheat?
Meet Queenie!
You a dumb blonde?
Meet Mae!
(OK - I think Wicked has us on that one!)
It's hard to say - WE HAVE SOMETHING EVERYONE CAN RELATE TO!
You a crack whore?
Meet Jackie!
You a scorned diva on the fritz?
Meet Dolores!
You a wife-beater?
Meet Burrs!
You a tramp?
Meet Kate!
You a wooden womanizer?
Meet Black!
You a lusty lesbian?
Meet Madaleine!
You a post-modernist scary lesbian?
Meet Sally!
You a conniving Jew looking to use, abuse, and not hire?
Meet Gold (and Goldberg)!
You a little girl that want to meet a big boy?
Meet Nadine!
You a fighter lookin' for a good fight?
Meet Eddie!
You have no remorse when you cheat?
Meet Queenie!
You a dumb blonde?
Meet Mae!
(OK - I think Wicked has us on that one!)
Updated On: 1/19/06 at 07:12 PM
#43
Posted: 1/19/06 at 7:18pm
Do you mean to tell me you're not one of those you just listed, BSO?
#44
Posted: 1/19/06 at 7:18pm
Hell, I'm at least 5 or 6 of them!
#45
Posted: 1/19/06 at 7:20pm
Me too! Well, maybe more like three. I'm OBVIOUSLY a tramp, a little girl looking for a big boy, and a woman who has no remorse when she cheats.
Maybe a crack whore, too.
Maybe a crack whore, too.
Updated On: 1/19/06 at 07:20 PM
#46
Posted: 1/19/06 at 7:23pm
I SAID
"WE HAVE SOMETHING EVERYONE CAN RELATE TO!"
(It's just hard to use those examples in an ad campaign when one says, "Ever feel like the outcast? Ever dream of a place where you belong? See CARRIE, THE MUSICAL")
"WE HAVE SOMETHING EVERYONE CAN RELATE TO!"
(It's just hard to use those examples in an ad campaign when one says, "Ever feel like the outcast? Ever dream of a place where you belong? See CARRIE, THE MUSICAL")
#47
Posted: 1/19/06 at 7:26pm
I know. I was just kidding around.
#48
Posted: 1/19/06 at 7:28pm
(I just wanted to bring up another great, CARRIE)
No one understands that the music is symbolic for...eh, EFF it!
It's a great show!
No one understands that the music is symbolic for...eh, EFF it!
It's a great show!
Updated On: 1/19/06 at 07:28 PM
#49
Posted: 1/19/06 at 8:15pm
Carrie is a horrible show. And unless the point of the score is to spoof musical theatre, then the score is pretty bad too. I personally think the Wild Party would have worked better on a smaller scale. Off-Broadway maybe at the Public.
I personally don't think that it's a terrible idea because tourists won't buy it. One obviously can't base his or her opinions based on the tourist. I dunno if someone said I wanna do a show about dancing cats, I wouldn't immediately think tourists. But that's what happened.
I personally don't think that it's a terrible idea because tourists won't buy it. One obviously can't base his or her opinions based on the tourist. I dunno if someone said I wanna do a show about dancing cats, I wouldn't immediately think tourists. But that's what happened.
#50
Posted: 1/19/06 at 10:44pm
Wow...sorry, is it just me, or does this argument seems incredibly hypocritical:
On Les Miz:
"The piece is obviously NOT connected to late 19th century France."
"I don't think I could listen to late-1800's French music for 3 hours."
"You know you are seeing a recreation of something classic in a modern context."
First of all, why would you make a show where the music isn't connected to the time period its set in, whether its a suggestion or a replication? Second, just because the composers of Les Miz were already known for a style outside of the context of the play, that makes it all right to write a score with no connection to the material? (I just want to say I don't know what your trying to argue about Les Miz: that its a good show where the music is out of context?! Personally, I think the music suits the story well, whether or not its written in the style of the period). And last, in light of all this, why the heck are you complaining about The Wild Party's music not being connected to the 1920's?!?
"Every stitch of Lippa's Wild Party seems an attempt to impress, or entertain, in a mainstream way that just doesn't suit the piece."
Hm, so writing a score that people will want to listen to and see doesn't suit the piece? Interesting.
"The score is less challenging than LaChiusa's, and therefore has more immediate appeal."
What a bunch of bull sh*t.
In summary, I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers. I just think you need to appreciate an artist's interpretation of a story that would not be accessible to many had it not been done. Granted, there were two musicals produced in the same season revolving around the same story, so it's impossible not to compare the two. But with everything you've said about Les Miz and Evita being legitimate works, I guess I just don't understand all the hating on Lippa. You say the songs feel "mixed" and that there are "too many styles." Well, you find me a musical that utilizes one musical style, and I will proceed to be bored out of my mind.
Just some constructive criticism. I think your thoughts thus far are very insightful, and I've learned a new stance. But they are still awfully hypocritical.
On Les Miz:
"The piece is obviously NOT connected to late 19th century France."
"I don't think I could listen to late-1800's French music for 3 hours."
"You know you are seeing a recreation of something classic in a modern context."
First of all, why would you make a show where the music isn't connected to the time period its set in, whether its a suggestion or a replication? Second, just because the composers of Les Miz were already known for a style outside of the context of the play, that makes it all right to write a score with no connection to the material? (I just want to say I don't know what your trying to argue about Les Miz: that its a good show where the music is out of context?! Personally, I think the music suits the story well, whether or not its written in the style of the period). And last, in light of all this, why the heck are you complaining about The Wild Party's music not being connected to the 1920's?!?
"Every stitch of Lippa's Wild Party seems an attempt to impress, or entertain, in a mainstream way that just doesn't suit the piece."
Hm, so writing a score that people will want to listen to and see doesn't suit the piece? Interesting.
"The score is less challenging than LaChiusa's, and therefore has more immediate appeal."
What a bunch of bull sh*t.
In summary, I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers. I just think you need to appreciate an artist's interpretation of a story that would not be accessible to many had it not been done. Granted, there were two musicals produced in the same season revolving around the same story, so it's impossible not to compare the two. But with everything you've said about Les Miz and Evita being legitimate works, I guess I just don't understand all the hating on Lippa. You say the songs feel "mixed" and that there are "too many styles." Well, you find me a musical that utilizes one musical style, and I will proceed to be bored out of my mind.
Just some constructive criticism. I think your thoughts thus far are very insightful, and I've learned a new stance. But they are still awfully hypocritical.
"Art is always in crisis: you must work fast to write in the breath on the window."
-Edward Bond
Updated On: 1/19/06 at 10:44 PM
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