Why we're passionate about theater, yet trash almost everything we see.

[ARTc]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 12:23pm

This got brought up in another thread and I thought it might be an interesting topic.

There is so much negativity here, yet I have absolutely no doubt that those who surf and post here are passionate about theater. Why?

[finebydesign]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 12:32pm

It's fun and it makes me feel better about myself.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 12:36pm

Are you referring to people who post a lot about theater and at the same time post about a certain show or two that they don't like that you do like, so that automatically translates into "trashing" theater as a whole?

Because I see that a lot here. I can talk about my love of the theater until the cows come home but the second I talk about how much I hated that one show that you thought was OMG so amazing, well, I just trash theater and have no idea what I'm talking about.

[DEClarke]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 12:49pm

By nature, we are critical. This board gives us an avenue to air the things we dislike. In general, people are much more likely to talk about things they don't like than things they do like. Have you ever seen the reviews on Yelp?

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 12:51pm

Poor expectation management? That plus a great many people tend to see things in superlatives (we are not only passionate about theater, we are passionate about DRAMA!): For some, just about everything they see has to be either the most phenomenal show they've ever discovered or - perhaps more frequently - a complete and utter bomb; of course sometimes people reach these conclusions with good reason, there are genuine and well thought out raves and pans. But for many these don't seem to be the exceptional responses, they seem to be the norm.

The fact is that 99% of what there is - and what there always has been - is somewhere in between and often much closer to the modestly appealing, or the near miss, then to either sheer triumph or bathetic fiasco.

Add to that the fact that a great many of us spend a great deal of money even when paying discount prices, which can't help add to the hysteria, pro or con.

As for myself, I have to say that theater in New York is far better now than it was at many other times in the last few decades, on many fronts. The variety and scope of new plays, the quality of singing in Broadway musicals, the care being brought to many productions of classics, and even - for my money - the fact that some are willing to take huge risks, which I often appreciate even when they don't quite work.

Finally, it is sometimes a great deal of fun to trash something that genuinely pisses us off. And some of us - I won't name names - really do appear to sincerely detest just about everything.



Updated On: 3/8/13 at 12:51 PM

[Ed_Mottershead]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 12:53pm

Speaking as an almost-Senior citizen who has loved the theatre since his sandbox days, I think part of the reason is that when a performance strikes the right nerve, it raises expectations/hopes to such a degree that, rightly or wrongly, it becomes the measuring stick. For example, in my case, I had the great good fortune to see a very young Peter O'Toole do Shylock at Stratford-on-Avon. Nobody -- not George C. Scott, not Dustin Hoffman, not Al Pacino (all actors whom I've admired in other roles) -- ever came close to what O'Toole did that night. Several others come to mind: Dewhurst/Robards in Moon for the Misbegotten; Caldwell in Medea and Master Class; Merman in Gypsy.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 12:53pm

Those posters only appear after eight, though.

[tazber]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 12:54pm

I agree with Jordan. If I don't like something I say so. And usually why.

If I like something I also say so.

It's all a matter of opinion.

I also always see people complain about negativity on here a lot. I don't see that. What I see are people who define negativity as "an opinion that differs from their own".

[macnyc]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 12:59pm

When I don't like something, I try to give cogent reasons, to the best of my ability. I don't see that as "trashing" anything. Plays are put on for the public, and are by definition reviewable. And I try to be open to having my mind changed or at least swayed.

[DEClarke]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 1:01pm

I also always see people complain about negativity on here a lot. I don't see that. What I see are people who define negativity as "an opinion that differs from their own".

Preach!

Updated On: 3/8/13 at 01:01 PM

[Unknown User]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 1:05pm

There are people who definitely give well thought out reasons as to why they don't like something, which I can appreciate. And others who come off jaded and bitter and I just scroll past their posts cause it's just same old same old.

I do think this board is fairly negative by nature. I, admitedly, do a lot of eye rolling.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 1:10pm

I wish those who have those "this place is so negative" comments would take a listen to normal conversation around them. Not very thing said is "I love you" "you are great" "that was wonderful". Real conversation comes from differing opinions, criticisms, etc.

This place is no different.

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 1:11pm

I think it has to do with the sheer volume of shows we all see too.

I don't know very much about the world of dance. If I went to see Paul Taylor or something at The Joyce I'd probably enjoy it and wouldn't even know how to be critical of the technical aspect of the dance/performances. If I started to see dance all the time I would probably figure out how to separate the wheat from the chaff.

The same goes for any type of art form. If you saw every movie that was released every weekend you would see a lot of bad movies. That doesn't make you any less passionate about film. To take what Henrik said and apply it here, you'd probably realize most films are average, some elicit ecstatic responses and some are truly terrible.

[all that jazz]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 1:25pm

In brief words, I think the more passionate you are about it, the more enraged you'll become when it's done wrong.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 1:29pm

It's also the fact that we see so much, so therefore, just in terms of number, the number of good things we see will be fewer. Like watching a lot of TV, etc. Also, we see a lot, and therefore, when we see something we like, we know what we like.

I love theater. I go to see at least 2 shows a week, if possible. Most of them I don't like, but it doesn't keep me from seeing theater because for every show that I hated and others loved - say, The Great God Pan - I'll see something like The Whale or Golden Boy and realize how much I love theater.

[Owen22]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 1:33pm

When we are young we tend to like everything. Especially when its a genre we are interested in. We are learning. As we age, maybe late high school into college, we develop a "taste". But we are also affected by peers. Plus, we want to think ourselves "smart". And for some reason, I don't know why, but saying something is "bad" or finding flaws makes us appear smarter. It becomes our "go to" reaction. We're probably thrilled when something isn't to our liking so we can just talk about how bad it is. Well, we grow out of that (hopefully) but our brain is now wired with that "ding" of feeling smarter when we go negative. Its probably somewhat Pavlovian. We become more astute, we come to appreciate things in a more rounded way, we don't necessarily HAVE to hate anything anymore. Yet, that need to trash never really, completely goes away. We love theatre, but we love that "ding" (even though its not intellectually acknowledged) even more.



Updated On: 3/8/13 at 01:33 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 1:47pm

I don't trash everything. I choose what I see carefully. I'm not a booster who "loves Broadway," I am a lover of good theater so consequently, there's a ton of Broadway that doesn't interest me in the least and I would not overspend to see it.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 2:05pm

Don't you also think posters here go into the theater writing a review in their head? And a review has to has to talk about what's wrong- even if it's just "It's overrated" or "This cast is NOT as good as the one in 1957 that I of course never saw but KNOW was legendary."

I enjoy shows a lot more now that I go in planning to enjoy them.

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 2:12pm

"I wish those who have those "this place is so negative" comments would take a listen to normal conversation around them. Not very thing said is "I love you" "you are great" "that was wonderful". Real conversation comes from differing opinions, criticisms, etc.

This place is no different."

I guess it depends on the people you choose to spend time with. Real conversation with differing opinions and even criticism can be expressed without negativity. The negativity on this board is the main reason I spend less and less time here. Often there is more (negative) talk about posters here and their opinions than there is about Broadway. My circle of friends and colleagues isn't all sunshine and rainbows, but it is always respectful, and there are no personal attacks or name-calling.

The same cannot be said of this board.

[ARTc]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 3:03pm

I really appreciate many of the thoughts expressed here. I wasn't sure how this would go. There are those who immediately jumped to criticize me for starting this post - even assuming my motives for doing so - but there are more who offered what I believe to be an intelligent response.

For the record. I adore the theater, go often and generally like or love more than I dislike. Actually, I am often deeply moved by the experience.

Occasionally, I have found myself in a theater insulted by the lack of creativity or professionalism and have commented here. Perhaps even ranted. I too am not without my own negativity. I just find this board so often nasty. So much so that I have gone away for months at a time.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 3:15pm

And you haven't even been here that long in the first place!

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 3:17pm

LOL

[RippedMan]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 3:22pm

I also love when we can have a difference of opinion. I bring up the Great God Pan again because it's a play I really thought was so boring and just horribly written and structured, and yet it got raves from critics, etc. I find stuff like that fascinating. I love knowing why someone likes something. I can usually tell if you're a smart, educated person because you won't list Wicked in your Top 5 musicals that you love, etc. It's just about getting educated in what you love. I'll admit when I first started seeing shows I thought RENT was the best thing ever, but then I got more aquatinted with musical theater and now I love Passion and Sunday in the Park and I'm beginning to delve into old R&H and Cole Porter.

[tazber]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 3:51pm

As far as message boards go BWW is a paragon of gentility.

It seems that some people get so involved in their devotion to a show that they take any negative opinions personally. That's usually when things go south.

And this is so true, Mercades:

There are people who definitely give well thought out reasons as to why they don't like something, which I can appreciate. And others who come off jaded and bitter and I just scroll past their posts cause it's just same old same old.

[ARTc]

Posted: 3/8/13 at 3:55pm

Ah, but I have been here... under a different username. I have been here for many years. I had asked to have my account deleted over a year ago and after a long absence, I decided I would give BroadwayWorld another chance. For a while I was just a lurker, but I finally re-registered.