Wicked, 1/4/05- Page 2

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 4:48pm

(Just thought this was a good chance to ask)

Priest- Ive honestly always wanted to know what you thought about Wicked. Care to post? *Im not being sarcastic, FYI*

And to add to what I said before, I am not one of those people who cant appreciate great classic shows like Phantom and Gypsy and West Side Story. I love all of those of shows and still love Wicked. Also, there is NO SUCH THING as a "flawless show". It can be nearly flawless but NO show ever made is 100% perfect.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 4:51pm

WickedRocks, I honestly cannot comprehend how someone could say they TRULY appreciate shows such as Gypsy and West Side Story and then go on to say Wicked is pretty damn close to flawless. It has tons of flaws. It's a fun show, but it's most certainly not the most well-written.

[wickedfan2]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 4:52pm

hey.. different strokes for different folks...

Idina has made alot of new fans with this show...I love her voice, her performances and could care one IOTA what anyone else thinks..She won the tony so they liked her too..... so don't hate the playa.. hate the game!

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 4:56pm

Yes, Idina' voice is in danger. I am refering to the show, not the Tony's. That cough is froms training her chords. She SCREAMS those notes. She doesn't belt. What Shoshana does is a belt. What Idina does is a yell. That strips your vocal chords. Idina can't seem to SING the score on tune, in key, and on a note. Idina didn't cough at the beginning of the run, but she is now.. because she is damaging her chords.

In act two, Idina has TWO line readings that she uses for EVERYTHING.

Idina, espceially when performing with Chenoweth, had AMAZING difficulty with staying in character. No, breaking character does not make for a fun show.. it makes for a BAD show.

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 4:58pm

BroadwayGirl- I did not say that at all. Your interpretation of what I said is totally wrong. I just said that there is no such thing as a flawless show and that I like Wicked as well as liking great classics. Updated On: 1/5/05 at 04:58 PM

[LittleFish8386]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 4:58pm

I'm glad you liked Jen!

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 5:00pm

If you consider, breaking out of character laughing at something funny, I think its a good thing that shes enjoying what ever is happening on the stage...I mean come on every Broadway star has "broken out of character" by laughing before.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 5:00pm

broadwayguy...Clearly you have not heard a scream before in your life. She does not scream, she sings. She has technique.

And as for your criticisms of her acting, please...don't make me laugh. If you really think she has two line readings for everything, I don't know what to tell you because she's done almost everything differenyl each time I've seen her. Honestly, when was the last time you saw the show?

Updated On: 1/5/05 at 05:00 PM

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 5:03pm

but that doesn't mean its bad technique

When it can permanently damage your vocal cords, it is bad technique. That doesn't mean it can't sound good at times, it just means it is bad vocal health. I happen to enjoy her voice at times, but always worry for her vocal cords.


Priest- Ive honestly always wanted to know what you thought about Wicked. Care to post? *Im not being sarcastic, FYI*

I'll try to give you the best idea of what I feel about the show.

I think Wicked is a show that appeals to the masses, and thus is good for B'way in that respect.
However, I feel it is bad for B'way in that it, like many musicals of today, relies on spectacle over substance.

The score is mostly mediocre, especially for Stephen Schwartz. I, at least, expect more from him.
I think that Popular is a brillaint song. Witty lyrics, clever music. But it is perhaps the only song in the show I would even start to call brilliant.
Much of the lyrics are quite amateurish.
I always cringe at the lyric:
When I'm with the Wizard
My whole life is gonna change
Cause when you're with the Wizard
No one thinks your strange

Schwartz spent too much time on the songs fort his two female leads, and thus the group songs and all the songs sung by other characters should have been vastly improved upon, or rewritten.

They weren't, and the group numbers are quite 'hokey'
But the audience enjoys them based on the "spectacle of the staging"
Back to spectacle over substance.

The book has some unfixable flaws.
But, for the most part, it is above adequate.
Could it use some reworking? Sure.
Does it desperately need it? Naw.

Depending on the actors, I would give the show a B/B-.
With average actors, the material would probably merit a C+ from me.

But do I understand why some people love it?
Yes, because it was their introduction to B'way.
It bridges the type of music most people enjoy with theatre.

And hopefully it'll bring in people to the theatre who will begin to discover knew, better shows.

I think the show will run a good 6+ years.
But after that it will be forgotten, because it's own mediocrity and what I feel was laziness in the creators ruins what could have been a landmark show.


And that's all I have to say about it.

Updated On: 1/5/05 at 05:03 PM

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 5:03pm

everyone breaks once, but that woman does it ALL the time. That is a bad thing. It is completely unprofessional and should not happen. You aren't there to schmooze with the audience and say "I think she's funny too".

Yes, TWO line readings. And that is a yell, not a belt.

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 5:03pm

I also want to say how people on this board obsess over people like Adam Pascal but no one makes fun of that. I personally dont like him but I dont harp on that and be rude about it.

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 5:07pm

Thanks, Priest. I can seriously understand what youre saying about the show.

"everyone breaks once, but that woman does it ALL the time."
-How can you judge this? Have you been to every one of her performances? I have been to four and am going on Jan 9 and Ive seen her break character and laugh one time total.

[LittleFish8386]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 5:09pm

Wait, who breaks character all the time?

[chasing_rainbows43]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 5:10pm

To WickedRocks - yes, and because no one posts "rudely" about disliking him, none of his fans feel the need to come back at those who don't love him with all sorts of defenses for whatever made them dislike his performance.

But that happens here. Someone likes Menzel. Fine. Someone doesn't like Menzel. Fine. Someone who likes Menzel posts to the person who doesn't saying they must be crazy to think that's a yell, you need to have your ears checked, it's not bad technique it's fantastic technique and all truly good singers have a hard time making it through a number without choking, etc.
That is what the difference is. An opinion is an opinion is an opinion. No one can convince you to believe this woman has lousy technique and perhaps has a less than attractive sound, just as no one can convince me to pay $100 to subject myself to what I feel was a poor vocal performance from someone whose vocals I never quite liked to begin with (and before someone harps on me for "why'd you go", I'll just repeat that I took my mother as a gift).

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 5:11pm

"When it can permanently damage your vocal cords, it is bad technique. That doesn't mean it can't sound good at times, it just means it is bad vocal health. I happen to enjoy her voice at times, but always worry for her vocal cords."

It. is. not. bad. technique. I don't know how else to say this besides flat out saying I have the same voice teacher as she does, and the technique causes no more stress on my vocal chords than the classical/legit style I've learned...granted you do it correctly. If she just wasn't doing anything her teacher has taught her correctly, first of all, she would sound quite different (she would sound more like she did at the Tonys) and her voice would be long gone by now.

"everyone breaks once, but that woman does it ALL the time. That is a bad thing. It is completely unprofessional and should not happen. You aren't there to schmooze with the audience and say "I think she's funny too"."

Clearly, you don't want to answer my question...I'm assumig you've seen the show once in your life, and you're assuming she break character "ALL THE TIME" because someone mentioned it once on this board. And breaking character is not laughing during the "Popular" scene....it's two roomates fooling around for god's sake.

[PJ]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 5:11pm

FOR GOD'S SAKE PLEASE STOP, PEOPLE!

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 5:12pm

Yeah...I think I'm done.

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 5:13pm

This was something that a man wrote into Entertainment Weekly (letters to the editor) right before the Tonys.

"Wicked Good- In her article on the Tonys, Mary Kaye Schilling claimed that "many critics rightfully yawned" at the musical Wicked. Any critic who yawned at Wicked was not paying attention. Finally, a musical story line that people could take seriously, with soaring music, and voices to rival any heard on a Broadway stage. But, of course, the critics know best. As usual, the public is wrong. Thirty years down the road, productions of Wicked will still be mounted while Avenue Q will become a footnote in musical comedy history. And yes, I liked that show too."-Rob Wills (if I need to credit the magazine or something so Im not accused of plajorism, let me know )

Just wanted to post this as a side note.

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 5:15pm

hmm.. no... i saw her several times and she broke each time. I have ways of finding out what happens during performances at that theatre and she has always done that regularly.. especially with chenoweth.

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 5:15pm

Done too. Just wanted to get the point across to broadwayguy and other people on here to please stop harping on how HORRIBLE the show or cast is.

[LittleFish8386]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 5:16pm

Actually please continue, b/c I am enjoying all of this...


Pretty soon, she'll be gone, and nobody will have to worry about anything!

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 5:18pm

Then the bashers will move on to Eden again.
whoops! *covers mouth with hand*

I think Im REALLY done now. Hopefully we will all stop posting about how bad Idina and the show are....probably not but why not dream?

[Princeton78]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 5:21pm

Someone accused Bwayguy2 of being negative about Ideden all the time. My thought on the matter is that when people keep pressing him and arguing him, he is going to stick to his guns, thus it may seem as though he is always bashing the Ideden. I respect his opinion. I respect the opinion of those who love her. I have enjoyed her each time I have seen "Wicked" myself. But if you don't want Bwayguy2 to speak negatively about Ideden...why do you provoke him? Just wondering.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 5:21pm

*sigh* No. I don't even know why I got started.

My point was that there is a difference between disliking someone and disregarding their talent because it is not of your particular taste. I could care less about whether or not anyone here likes Menzel or not....to each his own. Updated On: 1/5/05 at 05:21 PM

[chasing_rainbows43]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 5:22pm

WickedRocks, again. If someone thinks the show is bad or anyone in it is bad, they have just as much right to post that as you do to claim the opposite.
Please deal with this fact. No one is going to stop posting a negative opinion simply because it's negative. It's not "bashing" a show or performer. Bashing is making an attack for the purpose of making an attack.