#1
Posted: 8/22/14 at 8:48pm
I see that Megan Lewis recently joined the cast as a swing. Any idea if anyone in these cast is leaving soon or Megan may be filling in as a vacation swing?
#2
Posted: 8/24/14 at 1:43am
Chorus members may come and go, but in my opinion, I don't foresee any of the leading members heading out soon. Idina is highly publicized as the leading lady of If/Then, and I doubt she will be heading out this year. Perhaps next year will bring changes, but no one really knows!
#3
Posted: 8/24/14 at 11:34am
Idina will never be leaving this show. The show will go with her. I predict a January closing.
#4
Posted: 8/24/14 at 11:44am
The producers might try to convince Idina to stay until they recoup.
#5
Posted: 8/24/14 at 12:24pm
Considering its been on TDF for the last 3 weeks (or more) and Roxy mentioned its listed on TDF for the entire month of Sept, it might not make it January.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#6
Posted: 8/24/14 at 11:49pm
"it might not make it January."
Don't say that. I know it's true. But don't say it.
Don't say that. I know it's true. But don't say it.
#7
Posted: 8/25/14 at 12:30am
"The producers might try to convince Idina to stay until they recoup."
I thought they already did? Swore I read that here...
And everyone signed on til March. Provided there is still a show in March - and a show being on TDF or TKTS doesn't really mean that much; Once has been up there for ages and ages and it's still running - it will have the same cast in March. And I do believe it will make it to March.
I thought they already did? Swore I read that here...
And everyone signed on til March. Provided there is still a show in March - and a show being on TDF or TKTS doesn't really mean that much; Once has been up there for ages and ages and it's still running - it will have the same cast in March. And I do believe it will make it to March.
Updated On: 8/25/14 at 12:30 AM
#8
Posted: 8/25/14 at 1:43am
Why are a lot of people considering TDF to be a death sentence? All it is is a discounted service for eligible members that have to pay a small fee to use it to begin with. Many shows that are on TDF last, though some do close. That's just the business though and you have to win some and lose some.
#9
Posted: 8/25/14 at 8:19am
Yes, there are shows that survive even though they are on tdf a lot - but those are usually shows that have already recouped.
It's just very telling that their sales are not strong.
After seeing it, thanks to tdf, I can see why. I could not recommend seeing it to anyone I actually like, unless they were a fan of hers.
It's just very telling that their sales are not strong.
After seeing it, thanks to tdf, I can see why. I could not recommend seeing it to anyone I actually like, unless they were a fan of hers.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#10
Posted: 8/25/14 at 9:24am
I thought I read somewhere that the initial investment was $10 million and that advance sales before the show opened were $6 million. If that was the case, the show probably would not have recouped yet.
"I shall stay until the wind changes."
#11
Posted: 8/26/14 at 12:26am
The show has made nearly $22M - at nearly a mil a week for 6 months how in the world could anyone think it in danger of not recouping $10M? Or am I missing a key aspect of what is considered recoupment? (I'm serious - isn't recouping just making back what was invested?)
https://www.broadwayworld.com/grosses/IF-THEN
To be back on topic, I saw on twitter today that swing Stephanie Klemons is heading overseas for vacation, so that'd make sense that they've brought in a new swing.
https://www.broadwayworld.com/grosses/IF-THEN
To be back on topic, I saw on twitter today that swing Stephanie Klemons is heading overseas for vacation, so that'd make sense that they've brought in a new swing.
Updated On: 8/26/14 at 12:26 AM
#12
Posted: 8/26/14 at 12:54am
Yes. You are completely missing. LOL.
The initial investment is the cost of sets, costumes, rehearsals, load in, initial advertising, etc etc etc... The things you have to pay to get the show UP.
Then you have weekly expenses... Rent for the building, weekly salary for all employees, rent for lighting and sound equipment, the royalty payments to the writers and creators, on-going advertising, etc etc.
Let us assume a show earned $1 million in a given week. The operating costs of the show might be $750 thousand dollars that week. All of a sudden, you only have $250 thousand dollars for that week to count as profit. From there, you meed to bank a little bit for when times are lean amd the show might struggle, you need to invest a little bit in the production for upkeep, etc... Then from there, you have perhaps $100 thousand dollars for the week that you use to start paying back the investors.
(Granted, I pulled those numbers out of my behind... I was merely trying to demonstrate how it happens. Based the weekly costs amd structure at IF/THEN, they could be close to recouping or quite far. Some shows run for YEARS and never manage to pay back the investment. Jekyll & Hyde comes to mind.)
The initial investment is the cost of sets, costumes, rehearsals, load in, initial advertising, etc etc etc... The things you have to pay to get the show UP.
Then you have weekly expenses... Rent for the building, weekly salary for all employees, rent for lighting and sound equipment, the royalty payments to the writers and creators, on-going advertising, etc etc.
Let us assume a show earned $1 million in a given week. The operating costs of the show might be $750 thousand dollars that week. All of a sudden, you only have $250 thousand dollars for that week to count as profit. From there, you meed to bank a little bit for when times are lean amd the show might struggle, you need to invest a little bit in the production for upkeep, etc... Then from there, you have perhaps $100 thousand dollars for the week that you use to start paying back the investors.
(Granted, I pulled those numbers out of my behind... I was merely trying to demonstrate how it happens. Based the weekly costs amd structure at IF/THEN, they could be close to recouping or quite far. Some shows run for YEARS and never manage to pay back the investment. Jekyll & Hyde comes to mind.)
#13
Posted: 8/26/14 at 9:36am
I'm sure If/Then's nut (operating costs) is not $750k. David Stone is not that dumb.
Updated On: 8/26/14 at 09:36 AM
#14
Posted: 9/3/14 at 12:30am
LOL thanks broadwayguy2 - I somehow forgot the whole thing about ongoing expenses, not just initial investment. Embarrassing for someone that created multi-million dollar budgets for 5 years. I feel silly. But I appreciate the explanation!
#15
Posted: 9/3/14 at 8:50am
With its continued drop -- now down even more, $200 grand since the start of the summer -- lasting into the winter doldrums (Jan - March) seems unlikely. But it's hard to imagine the show not playing through the holidays, which will likely bring in decent sales. I still say, the biggest problem is the adult subject matter in a show that can't serve a tween fan base. Menzel's audience isn't just children, of course, but the show can't capitalize comfortably on Menzel's track record with the young demographic. Or families. Yes, the WICKED girls (and boys) are older now. But it was the synergy of role and performer. The character of Elphaba was part of the appeal, not Menzel in a musical theater vacuum. The FROZEN crowd can't get near IF/THEN's "What the F--k" sensibilities. It was the perfect time to return to B'way; from a strictly marketing standpoint, this was not the ideal show.
"I'm a comedian, but in my spare time, things bother me." Garry Shandling
#16
Posted: 9/3/14 at 12:23pm
While I essentially agree with the marketing difficulty of a more niche target audience vis-a-vis Idina Menzel for this return Broadway vehicle, I respect those people involved in IF/THEN because they were willing to throw themselves completely into a very risky, true original production. Whether IF/THEN is the "ideal" show for Menzel's return probably depends on whose priorities, and certainly those involved believe in the production for creative/message purposes and not strictly economics; at least Menzel at al give that impression in interviews, and one gets the sense from Menzel herself that she wanted the adult show regardless of that niche target audience issue.
Interestingly, from the viewer reviews I had skimmed (not critics), opinions tend to get better with multiple viewings. Given how expensive Broadway is in general, the average "fanzel" along the collegiate-ish age bracket can't afford that, and though this upcoming "2-for-1" deal may help the "poor" demographic in terms of accessibility, it certainly won't help the overall numbers.
I think there is a measure of artistic cowardice in sticking only to revivals (though I honestly don't understand the economics of Broadway when 75% of productions apparently fail according to NYT, why bother at all?), so they deserve credit there at least. I thought I read something about this production (and others) that the producers typically set aside some money for the low point of fall/winter? Anyway, I hope IF/THEN at least recoups to encourage people in the future to keep trying...
Interestingly, from the viewer reviews I had skimmed (not critics), opinions tend to get better with multiple viewings. Given how expensive Broadway is in general, the average "fanzel" along the collegiate-ish age bracket can't afford that, and though this upcoming "2-for-1" deal may help the "poor" demographic in terms of accessibility, it certainly won't help the overall numbers.
I think there is a measure of artistic cowardice in sticking only to revivals (though I honestly don't understand the economics of Broadway when 75% of productions apparently fail according to NYT, why bother at all?), so they deserve credit there at least. I thought I read something about this production (and others) that the producers typically set aside some money for the low point of fall/winter? Anyway, I hope IF/THEN at least recoups to encourage people in the future to keep trying...
#BoycottTrumplikePattiMurin
Updated On: 9/3/14 at 12:23 PM
#17
Posted: 9/3/14 at 4:03pm
Excellent points, all; I fully agree.
"I'm a comedian, but in my spare time, things bother me." Garry Shandling
#18
Posted: 9/3/14 at 4:59pm
I forgot to add... ^You mentioned Wicked in the tween audiences glommed onto Menzel (Frozen doesn't even count), but I think the real target audience is the Renthead, and a particular breed of Renthead at that. There have been multiple articles and reviews pointing to IF/THEN as the "grown-up RENT," a point underscored with the reunion of some key RENT members. Still, I'm probably not alone in thinking the Wicked+Frozen entourage vastly outnumber the old-school Rentheads these days.
I'll still watch how all of this unfolds, but I'm hoping for the best just because I admire the creative bravery in taking that step to really try something new. Besides, when the overall reviews aren't consistently negative, that means a decent fraction of the niche target audience are being reached. It becomes a game of surviving off the niche target audience in a very geographically local entertainment industry; Broadway just isn't accessible to the vast majority of people.
I'll still watch how all of this unfolds, but I'm hoping for the best just because I admire the creative bravery in taking that step to really try something new. Besides, when the overall reviews aren't consistently negative, that means a decent fraction of the niche target audience are being reached. It becomes a game of surviving off the niche target audience in a very geographically local entertainment industry; Broadway just isn't accessible to the vast majority of people.
#BoycottTrumplikePattiMurin
#19
Posted: 9/3/14 at 6:01pm
Appreciate all your points and wholeheartedly agree. Yes they definitely could have capitalized on Idina's younger fanbase but I so respect that those involved followed their creative vision and made the show they wanted to make. It does seem like the cast and creatives so strongly believe in what they've created. Really admire the bravery and conviction of all involved.
#20
Posted: 1/26/15 at 3:43pm
DeeDee Magno Hall is replacing Ann Sanders in her track as Cathy and covering the role of Anne.
Megan Lewis is replacing Pearl Sun as a swing and covering the role of Kate.
Megan Lewis is replacing Pearl Sun as a swing and covering the role of Kate.
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