re: Jennifer Holliday: 'What the public doesn't understand is that I actually created my role'- Page 2

[lildogs]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 2:47pm

I think Jen probably did contribute to the shape of the role--would the role of Sarah in RAGTIME be so large had Audra not originated it? Almost certainly not. So it's not wrong to think she helped in the creation--she didn't WRITE it, but I'm sure the role would have been written differently had someone else played her. Or not.

[gonnapassmealaw]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 2:47pm

Girl, please.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 2:49pm

"The same is true for anyone who originates a role. That doesn't give her sole ownership over it for the rest of her life"

Except for Carol Channing and Hello Dolly. I think every program has to state "The actress playing Dolly is recreating the original work of Miss Carol Channing".

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 2:50pm

Who is playing Deena's mother in the film?

I thought that would be a perfect cameo spot.

[Mother's Younger Brother]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 2:51pm

Seriously? I've never noticed/heard of that before. Interesting!

Posted: 11/22/06 at 2:51pm

Why in the world would Condon involve her? She is dificult beyond belief and in her own words "They didn't even know who I was" any more-- why in the world find a role for a diva who won't bring in any extra fans?

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 2:53pm

I think gonnapassmealaw said it best.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 2:55pm

Yvette Cason plays May, Deena's mother in the film.

Loretta Devine plays a jazz singer in a later smoky jazz club scene, reminiscing about the young Jimmy Early.

A very touching scene -- a nice connected reference for the original Broadway Lorrell Robinson.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 2:57pm

Oooh, I love Yvette! "I GOT THE MONEY!"

[Gothampc]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 2:57pm

Can you imagine Donna McKechnie saying "They didn't consult me when they were filming A Chorus Line"? Knowing that part of Cassie was based on her personal story and that role was tailored to her strengths.

[best12bars]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 2:59pm

Someone should remind this diva that self-pity doesn't "play."

[Gothampc]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 3:01pm

"Someone should remind this diva that self-pity doesn't "play."

Is that a line from the Valley of the Dolls remake?

[best12bars]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 3:03pm

Like I sat through THAT.




...But if isn't it ought to be!

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 3:03pm

Did she get a cameo in that?

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 3:04pm

VALLEY OF THE DOLLS 'remake'? You mean the 1981 TV Movie remake/adaption?

[Peter]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 3:05pm

What I've always found strange about all the Holliday adoration is the fact that she really sucks as an actress. She can belt the hell out of "And Im telling you..", but people easily excuse her lack of acting talent, whereas they are far tougher on comparable modern day singers. The fact that she sings one song well wouldn't carry her through a movie imo...nevermind the fact that she is too old for the part.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 3:09pm

I am sure she has to have emotional reactions, she was in a hit show where people paid and waited to hear her sing one song and they went wild. She got standing ovations for that. Not much can top that. Sad, but true. She never lived up to that one moment in time. Plus in a theatre her over the top dramatics sold it to the back of the house, close up it is bit overdone. I agree she isn't the best actress.

[best12bars]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 3:14pm

Her acting was great as Effie too, but she was a one-trick pony. Whether she was given line readings or not, Bennett definitely shaped her performance, and she was thrilling... NOT just on the big song.

But take her out of Dreamgirls, and out from under Bennett's careful direction, and she couldn't do it on her own. Other directors would read her or even hire her, and just sit back and expect her to go on auto-pilot. She didn't have the training as an actress to do it on her own.

To be honest, I'm a little worried about Hudson suffering the same fate, as well. Bill Condon shaped her performance in this movie, coached her on and off the set, and it remains to be seen if she can do anything like this again "on her own," outside of this role and this director. If she was smart, she would be studying HARD right now, if she wants to continue acting. She should surround herself with the best people in the business, and when the phone rings again (which it will), she'll hopefully be ready to rise to the occasion. Hudson may take a different route though, and just concentrate on her singing career. Who knows? But if she wants build a film career, post-Dreamgirls... she needs serious training to back it up.

[bjivie2]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 3:19pm

I might agree that Holliday did a bit more tha most people to get her character in the show. And I Am Telling You was written for her (with her specific vocal traits), and Effie was added into Act 2 because she made the suggestion to Michael Bennett (rocky rehearsal process from what I've heard - she quit once, got rehired, blah blah blah).

But as far as "owning" the role, I've heard that as much of the music was composed by the cast just improving during rehearsal, so it's not only Holliday that "created" their roles in a way.

Besides all that, she needs to get over it, move on, and never mention Dreamgirls again.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 3:20pm

Well, she's actually right -- in part -- that she DID have a hand at creating the character of Effie during the workshops she did with Bennett (several Bennett bios and articles on the show testify to that fact). She wasn't alone in this, obviously -- Bennett, Peters, Krieger and Eyen played crucial roles as well -- but, in Bennett's workshop process, the main performers are very actively involved in the creation of material. Henry Krieger and Tom Eyen DID write "And I Am Telling You" specifically for her voice and the unique things it could do -- had another actress played Effie, it would have been a very different song (or it's possible that that moment would have never happened in the show at all -- it was Holliday's extraordinary virtuousity that inspired them to try and create an "aria" that showed off some of the amazing things that she could do).

It's also true that Bennett, Eyen and Krieger had no intention whatsoever in bringing Effie back in Act II and that if it weren't for Holliday arguing constantly for the role to be expanded, the plot to the show would have had a very different arc to it (she was a major pain in the ass about it, which led to Bennett firing her at one point -- though she says she quit). The creative team still very much had the real story of the Supremes in their heads and in real life, Flo Ballard never made a comeback. Originally, in the second act they had killed off Effie and the story focused on the whole Deena/Diana Ross -- Curtis/Berry Gordy thing. Eventually Bennett changed his mind about Holliday (he said he realized that he NEEDED her for the show and frankly could not get her voice out of his head) and lured her back with the promise of bring Effie back and Act II. They went through several scenarios (including one where Effie was a maid for an old lady played by Estelle Getty) until they finally, after much trial and error, came up with the whole Effie's comeback story that's in the final version of the show (though Bennett kept tinkering with and revising Act II throughout the original run of the show).

Now, mind you, Holliday didn't write "I Am Changing" or "One Night Only" (nor should she suggest that she did), but she did have a role during the workshops in how Act II finally resolved the show.

That she's now attempting to take perhaps too much credit for it, is certainly ungracious, though hardly surprising. Holliday has always been a difficult and insecure woman and that fact has hurt her repeatedly throughout her post-Dreamgirls career. In an unfortunate case of life imitating art, she has become that original version of Effie -- an incredible talent that never quite made it to the big time due to her attitude and never had a comeback (and her bankruptcy and suicide attempt brings the Flo Ballard comparisons very close to home).

Yes, she's bitter (and perhaps more than a little pathetic), but I still feel bad for her. She never achieved the fame that her talent deserved (and it's her own fault). While she was an important part in the creation of Effie and the show itself, it's too bad that she never found her own second act -- some form of redemption in her life and career.

Updated On: 11/23/06 at 03:20 PM

[bjivie2]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 3:24pm

Margo, write a book. Please. I'd buy it.

[lildogs]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 3:28pm

She just did--thanks Margo--as ev-rah.

[Buscee]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 3:32pm

I remember that when the show opened it was said that the original idea was that Effie was not in the 2nd act. It was during workshops and its pre-Broadway tryout that Effie emerged as the "Lead", and it was do to Ms.Hollidays performance. She did have input in "Effie's comeback". She should be pissed that her voice was used in trailers, and she should have been paid if she hasnt. But its 25 years ago there is no was she could do it in the movie. I would have been nice if they gave her "EDNA BURKE or something, but I think she wouldnt be happy with that either.

[rickgianatos]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 3:43pm

The original DreamGirls should have been a more "established" group that crosses the Dreamette's path at the Apollo. Would have been a great cameo for Sheryl & Company!

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 11/22/06 at 3:43pm

Since the talent contest isn't at the Apollo Theatre in the film -- Edna Burke isn't in the film.

The film now opens at the Detroit Theatre and THEN when James "Thunder" Early and The Dreamettes start getting big do they perform at the legendary Apollo Theatre. Makes more sense this way.