tale of . . . wow- Page 2

[winston89]

Posted: 8/23/08 at 1:14pm

No, I am not only seeing what I want to see Adam. I still feel that people were looking for ways to bash this show from day one. Just because I didn't see what the naysayers were seeing doesn't mean I am choosing to see my own version of the show.

As I said earlier, the people who were bashing this show based on direction were the same people who listened to the concept CD and were bashing the show before the show even started previews in Florida. I still feel that the majority of them (note I said majority not every single one) are the ones that continued to not give this show a fair chance by saying that Two Cities is a knockoff of Les Miserables.

And, I still feel that the majority of the people who were bashing the direction were were people who were looking for something more to bash this show on. I am sure you can look at two different shows and notice similar things in their direction. I feel that Two Cities is the same. Sure, some people might see a similarity between this and Les Miserables ( I don't). But, I think it is pretty far out there to go and say it was a blatant ripoff.

And, don't pass an opinion off as a fact. I feel that the didn't ripoff Les Miserables, and you feel that they do. There is no problem with that. Just don't say that my opinion is wrong just because it doesn't match up with what your saying.

[broadwayfan310]

Posted: 8/23/08 at 1:34pm

There are a lot of haters on this board winston... people who think they are a lot smarter then everybody else.. you just have to ignore them...

[WithoutATrace]

Posted: 8/23/08 at 1:59pm

I was talking to a couple in front of me last night...and they said, it reminded them of Les Mis, but they were really enjoying it...and they liked Act 2 even more than Act 1. I really hope audiences embrace this show.

[bwaybabe2]

Posted: 8/23/08 at 5:21pm

Winston!!! Well I have to say that last post of yours was the best I've ever read from you. Very powerfully put, my friend, and those whom it was intended for, deserve it, but I can only hope they "get it".
You know, I want to note that the word "shill" around here is used more as a put down tool than anything else...where did the idea that a person cannot say good things about...ANYTHING, for that matter, without being put down as a shill, come from? I should think that we can all go nuts about certain shows, performers, etc...to our hearts' contents, whether our opinion matches the critics or not, without the tiresome and disagreable shill adjective being pinned on us like a scarlet letter. For that matter, we should also be able to criticize a show, although, as you say, and others have seen, some people just "want" to hate this show, for whatever hidden reasons they have (and, honestly, I can see quite a lot of lurking enemies of people in this show, maybe even the producers, besides the fact that some might have auditioned, but were not chosen? Who knows!).

I have never seen "Les Miz", but from the stills I've witnessed, and the subject matter (NOT even the "French Revolution"!), I can tell you Tale is NOT a "ripoff" of this show. It is a story far, far different from "Lez Miz", only that the clothes are from close to the same period, and there is the France connection. Tale is more like a "family" yarn, with a powerful love story supporting it and becoming its DNA. The fact the French Revolution is there, well, yes, those "were" the times Dickens wrote about (and quite "differently" from Victor Hugo, I must add). Yeah, I saw it already, and yeah, it is a WOW! of a show. The reason I have not commented is because I like to "enjoy" posting and having a somewhat civil(?) reaction to my opinions, even if people disagree. Otherwise, I would just be adding "fuel to the fire" for certain "haters", like it seems in this case with Tale. Sad.

[COOOOLkid]

Posted: 8/23/08 at 5:25pm

Oh, the hypocrisy of people claiming s/he hates "haters on this board."

They simply did not like the show. No need to fire back at them.

[adamgreer]

Posted: 8/23/08 at 5:37pm

And, don't pass an opinion off as a fact.

You mean, like you've been doing when you've repeatedly stated that people who have compared it to Les Miz have just been looking for a reason to bash the show?

Winston!!! Well I have to say that last post of yours was the best I've ever read from you. Very powerfully put, my friend, and those whom it was intended for, deserve it, but I can only hope they "get it".

I deserved it? What exactly is "it"???? Far as I can tell two people are having a discussion. Isn't that the purpose of a message board?

I have never seen "Les Miz", but from the stills I've witnessed, and the subject matter (NOT even the "French Revolution"!), I can tell you Tale is NOT a "ripoff" of this show.

You're kidding me, right? You've never seen Les Miz, but you can tell us definitely, based on still photos, that one is not a ripoff of the other. That's just...wow.

And it was never a matter of the subject matter being similar. Les Miz takes places almost 30 years after the action in A Tale... It deals with student uprisings that were far less significant than the French Revolution.

The issues have been with both the music and the direction. However, you've seen still photos, so I guess we should just stop comparing the two and listen to you, because you've seen STILL PHOTOS.

[winston89]

Posted: 8/23/08 at 6:16pm

Bwaybabe, thanks for the kind words.

Adam, I am not going to continue this pointless debate with you.

The reason I was scared of being called a shill is because when I defended Rent in one thread, TDH called me a shill just for being a fan of the show

[bwaybabe2]

Posted: 8/23/08 at 6:35pm

There it is. I rest my case. Did I say I based my comment on "stills" only...? Please, read again. I have also seen video of Les Miz, and basically KNOW the story. And thank God I still can "hear", so I have heard songs from both. As mentioned, how "different" do you think Tale should sound to be labeled "original" and a "good score"...? (the music, beyond my opinion, or the same as that of actual musical talent who have listened to it, is amazaing, and I find it quite fetching of one's heart and soul, and more than fitting to the story).

Adamgreer, CHILL buddy. I LIKE a good debate, and a differing opinion is refreshing and enlightening (most of the time educational, as well). I have to say your opening post was not as bashing as some I have read, so I am not pointing fingers here at you.
Those I mentioned as "haters", seem to just point blank want to see this show in a demise, for no great reasons, I add.

Coooolkid (did I miss any "O's"?), explain the "hipocrisy" of my comments...? Honestly, now I am the one who does not "get it". Have I come off as hating on this board. Pray, point it out to me, so I can be aware of my equivocal actions.

Like Winston, I am not really going to debate a baseless point.
Updated On: 8/23/08 at 06:35 PM

[MyLife]

Posted: 8/24/08 at 1:03am

Winston, you have my support 100%.

I loved the show, and can't wait to see it again. It has every aspect that a hit show needs. I feel as if those who dismiss it so rapidly are those who didn't want to like it from the start. I went in with no expectations and I left affected and touched, with the show leaving a very good impression on me.

The show is not Les Miz. See the show for what it is and don't compare it to anything else but that. So the show has some simple choreography that mimics Les Miz. Heck, in Wicked in March of the Witch Hunters they march to the front of the stage with weapons, and people don't hate Wicked because it's a copy of Les Miz. This choreography is simple yet effective, and it works. Les Miz does not have a copyright on marchign with weapons.

I also think this story belongs on Broadway. Many kids read the book in school, and hated it (I remember being one of the only ones who really enjoyed the novel). Bringing this to Broadway portrays this classic and touching story in a different manner and I think that is great and important. Leaving the theater I heard a kid (must have been high school age) saying to his mom that he wants to read the book again because he missed a lot the first time and didn't get it. Any show that makes you want to think in the real world is a winner in my book.

I wish the best for ATOTC and the cast, and I hope others give it a chance. I think it can be this year's Xanadu.

[winston89]

Posted: 8/24/08 at 1:24am

Thank you for backing me up.

I have said it before and I will say it again. I feel that the people who are calling it Les Miserables II, are people who said that they weren't going to like it from the get go. For whatever the reason might be. At least be open minded and give the show a chance. I am sure that if you compare two shows, whatever they may be. You can find something similar in the blocking or choreography. Does it mean that one blatantly stole from the other? No, it is just something that happens.

[chrisampm2]

Posted: 8/24/08 at 1:37am

I don't want to leave AdamGreer as the only one defending those of us, on this thread at least, who did not cotton to TOTC. Neither he nor I seemed, from the posts here, to be "haters." Nor was there any apparent pre-disposed bias. I, for one, had not heard the concept CD. I had read some comments about the show here before going. They seemed equally weighted pro and con. I just didn't like it - the half that I saw. To be offended by comparisons to Les Mis seems equally extreme. The ads for the show and boards outside the theater - "The Revolution Has Begun" in the Les Mis font - invite the comparison before the show itself does. We can debate whether it's fair to compare French revolutions, but as Adam states, the staging of the Act 1 climax is pretty clearly a steal. Even so, if the work onstage - in the half I saw - had been good, I wouldn't have minded.
In my earlier post, I wrote I was glad people like WInston were finding value in it. I was not trying to rain on anyone's parade but simply reporting what I felt last night. I am disappointed by the black and white nature of this and many other discussions here. Last season, I didn't express outright hatred for a show like Cry-Baby and many on this board and in this thread labeled me a shill. This season, many of the same people are labeling anyone who doesn't love TOTC a hater. I hope it's possible with the next shows to be able to have discussions that allow for something in between.


Updated On: 8/24/08 at 01:37 AM

[TooDarnHot]

Posted: 8/24/08 at 1:38am

saw the show tonight....

it is a sequel to LES MISERABLES.

a second-rate ripoff. no question.

I will give you this: the cast is pretty damn brilliant.

but the show is just meh. it needs work. all I thought about was LES MIS.

sorry folks... Adam Greer is spot on, with his argument. it's not an opinion - it's a fact. it's copying.

he didn't see what he wanted to see. he saw a duplicate Act One finale. he is exactly right.

the show was bland and will never be worth the face value, of my ticket, but I enjoyed it. still reminds me of LES MIS too much though.

[winston89]

Posted: 8/24/08 at 1:51am

The reason why you saw Les Miserables II when seeing the show tonight is this. All you were doing prior to seeing the show was talking about how it was a second rate Les Miserables, before you even went to see the show.

There are people that agree with Adam on the Les Miserables II thing and I am not trying to toot my own horn, But, I have had people comment to me that they don't see the whole Les Miserables II thing.

Just because more then one person agrees on something does not change an opinion to a fact.

It is theatre. Theatre is something that is open for interpretation. I could understand you arguing it as a matter of fact or fiction if they came out and said that they were going to copy the direction form Les Miserables. However, they didn't. Therefor, I am allowed to have my own interpretation of the show and feel like they were creating something original. And, your allowed to have yours, and think that they were ripping off Les Miserables. There is no right or wrong on this one, it is a matter of opinion. An opinion by definition, is just someone's thoughts on something without it being right or wrong.

I said in another thread that you are bound to find similar things in tons of shows. If you took two shows of your choosing and compared them side by side. I am sure you can find things in the direction and choreography that are similar. It doesn't make it a rip off.

Updated On: 8/24/08 at 01:51 AM

[Broadway_freak]

Posted: 8/24/08 at 2:05am

I am so glad Natalie Toro is back on Broadway!

[COOOOLkid]

Posted: 8/24/08 at 2:10am

The reason why you saw Les Miserables II when seeing the show tonight is this. All you were doing prior to seeing the show was talking about how it was a second rate Les Miserables, before you even went to see the show.

Aren't you an English major?

"Hey, you! You're the worst thing to happen to musical theatre since Andrew Lloyd Webber!" -Family Guy

[winston89]

Posted: 8/24/08 at 2:15am

Nope. Going into my first year of college.

I think the confusion is this. I quoted a poster in my old signature who was an English major. In the quote he talked about how nothing in terms of spelling and grammar are a shock to him because this is an informal setting and that nothing written here is meant for formal publication.

[FlyingMonkey1223]

Posted: 8/24/08 at 2:58am

Does anyone know if any of the actors flirted and/or tried to pick up any teen girls at the stage door? teehee.

[TooDarnHot]

Posted: 8/24/08 at 9:56am

ohh give me a break, Winston.

I didn't see what I wanted to see... I saw a duplicate!!!

I beg of you - go to the Lincoln library and watch the video of the Broadway LES MIS. Take note of everything (and especially the Act One Finale). Then, on the same day, rush over to TALE and compare. Please. Just do it. You'll be better for it winston.

[adamgreer]

Posted: 8/24/08 at 10:51am

Does anyone know if any of the actors flirted and/or tried to pick up any teen girls at the stage door?

Not to take away from Barbour's excellent performance (he truly was the only memorable thing about this production), but there were a couple of moments of "nervous laughter" during the show (at least for those who know Barbour's story). One was when he is in bed with the little girl reading her a story, and then saying prayers with her. The other is at the end, when he's holding hands with the young girl before she is lead away, and he instructs her to "look at me the entire time.'

[winston89]

Posted: 8/24/08 at 11:27am

Too Darn Hot, once again attacking people just because they don't agree with you and calling your opinion a fact. How very adult and mature.

I agree with what BrianS said about you. Read my signature if you don't remember.

When a poster created a thread wishing everyone luck in the preview process of this show, you posted the Les Miserables logo. The thread was made before the previews started, before you even had a chance to see them. That only proves my point that you were looking for, and got Les Miserables.

I know the Les Miserables blocking very, very well. I can tell you for a fact that there isn't anything even similar in the blocking of both act one closers.

Your allowed to have your opinion and I am allowed to have mine. Act like an adult, and when someone disagrees with you deal with it in a mature way. Understand that adults can disagree with one another without the need to say that someone is wrong or that they are better then the other person, or that their view is correct and the other person's is wrong. It is children who like to find who was right and who was wrong when they disagree. Instead of realizing that there can be two different view points to something. Grow up and realize that my opinion is just as valid as yours.

And besides, I don't know if I can trust the view point of someone who got themselves labeled as a liar, and who did a great job of throwing away their credibility on this forum.

Updated On: 8/24/08 at 11:27 AM

[Dancin Thru Life]

Posted: 8/24/08 at 12:16pm

Kids!
I don't know what's wrong with these kids today!

Kids!
Who can understand anything they say?

Kids!
You can talk and talk till your face is blue!

Kids!
But they still just do what they want to do!

Why can't they be like we were,
Perfect in every way?

What's the matter with kids today?

[MyLife]

Posted: 8/24/08 at 12:24pm

To each is own, and if you didn't like the show that is perfectly fine. However, it's not right respect the show for what it is. Audiences have generally liked the show so far so let them (us) have our fun and just go away. I don't get why people insist on bashing a show for fun. It's like a bully on a schoolyard. Do you get pleasure out of it? Does it make you feel like a better person?

My opinion: the show is not Les Miz and for someone to think that shows they did not listen or see the story presented and instead watched the show solely for costumes and choreography. It's 18th century France, that is what people wore then and that is how one can show on stage a rebellion: organized chaos. ATOTC is not a rip off of Les Miz, read both books. A lot of the description is the same but neither is a rip off of the other.

[LePetiteFromage]

Posted: 8/24/08 at 1:57pm

Updated On: 5/2/09 at 01:57 PM

[Eponine]

Posted: 8/24/08 at 3:09pm

I saw it on Saturday and agree with what lots of people have to say. The first act seems so long (the grave robbing song? WTF?), and the scenes with the angry peasants talking about revolutions are recycled from Les Mis and Scarlet Pimpernel (even down to the "stars" references). The second half blew the first half out of the water. James Barbour steals the show, as evidenced by the applause he receives at the end from the crying audience.

Tiny things that bothered me:
- the girl's bed on top of the rolling wooden rack...all it would take is a bump for her to lose her balance. Dangerous!

- the seamstress' American accent. It doesn't fit in with all the other contrived European accents of the rest of the cast



Updated On: 8/24/08 at 03:09 PM

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 8/24/08 at 3:41pm

This thread is great fun. Thanks, all.