white Broadway- Page 4

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 1:49am

"In all of Audra's roles, she never played a "white" woman."

But she was the original woman in the Kesa/Lily/Deanna track of See What I Wanna See...

As far as a few things this author mentioned..."Can a Latino Jean Valjean in pre-Revolutionary France make the role believable?" Philip Hernandez played both Jean Valjean and Javert.

And does this author know that the current Elphaba is a minorty? Eden Espinosa is hispanic.

EDIT:"And in contemporary plays why would it be weird if people had children of a diffrent race. Is adoption really that odd for people to come up with on their own."

I don't even see why adoption need to be the solution we come up with in our minds. I just saw a production at Julliard last night in which there was plenty of colorblind casting (because they only have that class to choose from anyway, so it's inevitable), and frankly there was nothing about it that DIDN'T work. Updated On: 2/24/06 at 01:49 AM

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 2:14am

Updated On: 2/24/06 at 02:14 AM

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 2:19am

I'm confused. What does Audra playing that role in See WHat I Wanna See have to do with race. That role isn't really race specific.

RentBoy86 I think you're missing the point. If you read my earlier thread I said no one is saying that minorities should be appearing on broadway 50/50. There are less of them...hence minorities. THat's not the point. I'm not saying there aren't enough minorities cast. THE ISSUE ISN'T THE NUMBER OF MINORITY ROLES. THe issue is minorities playing roles that are traditionally white. Like Christine and Eliza Doolittle. Of course no one is setting out to cast all white shows. But let a black girl walk into the room to audition for Mary Poppins. I'd love to see the auditors' faces.

Something you said speaks to the heart of the problem. Rabbit Hole is about a typical All-American SUburban Family. Why does that mean white? Are there not All-American suburban families that are Filipino, Black, Asian? I even know a typical All-American family that's Peruvian. WHat the hell does all american mean?! White?!

[NYC4Life]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 2:26am

Great point Jazzysuite82! All American should not mean white.

[Effie]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 4:39am

Quote: "My point was (and again, I have no idea how this applies to Broadway specifically) that filling a job because a quota of minorities needs to be reached is not only unfair to the more qualified people, but also unfair to the morale of the minorities (I would think). I know I would not be particularly happy knowing I got a position I wasn't qualified for because of my race or religion, but because I filled someone's quota."


Jasonf, what bothers me about your statement is your assumption that a black person up for the same job (or role) as a white person is inherently less qualified, and that every person who's benefitted from affirmative action is some kind of drooling idiot who had no business even turning in an application. I don't support quotas, either. (And they're pretty much history,) but the reason they came about was because in certain industries non-whites were deliberately excluded from participation. You couldn't join the union, you couldn't work at the firehouse... Jobs went to friends, family members, people from the neighborhood. Just because you're white and have an "in" at a certain shop, that doesn't necessarily make you more qualified to do the job. Don't get me started on universities and the various elements that factor into admission. Newsflash, it's not just grades and SAT scores. Ask George Bush or the kid from Montana who got in because the admissions people want the student body to have people from all fifty states.

But back to theater...

Doogie, even though Carrie is racially non-specific to a degree (you do have to take the setting into consideration), a lot of directors would not have cast Audra in the part. At least not when she was an unkown. Nicholas Hytner made a conscious decision to cast Carousel multiculturally. In his original London staging it was Mr. Snow who was black. When he brought it to Lincoln Center, he found a black Carrie. Audra made a point of thanking him for his colorblind casting when she won the Tony.

Despite the discussion, I actually think Broadway today is in pretty good shape in terms of its inclusiveness.

[jasonf]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 8:04am

First, Effie, of COURSE I realize that not all minorities who got into a job or program or whatever because of quotas weren't qualified, but that's not what I was saying. The fact is, as a result of those quotas (which thankfully mostly ARE history, though I suspect there are hidden ones still lurking about), people HAVE gotten positions over more qualified people. As I've said twice now, I'm all for giving the most qualified person a job/position regardless of race.

Which brings us back to Broadway. Do we know for a fact that some of these roles (Eliza, Phantom, Mary Poppins) have been given to white actors OVER more talented minorities? I mean, plain and simple, what if the white people were just more talented? I find it hard to believe that if Audra tried out for Eliza or Norm Lewis tried out for Phantom that either of them would be denied the role. Until someone comes out and SPECIFICALLY claims that there was discrimination in casting, this is just people complaining about not seeing the minorities on stage - that in and of itself is NOT a valid argument without knowing who the potential pool of auditioners in any given situation are who were rejected.

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 9:07am

Jasonf, spoken just like a white person who isn't out auditioning. While I've not been turned down for BROADWAY roles, I have been told I can't play certain roles BECAUSE I'm black. SO you act as if it doesn't happen. UNtil someone comes forward?! Ask minority performers, they'll tell you it HAS happened and KEEPS happening. You think if a black girl walked in to do Mary Poppins she'd be taken seriously?! You think a black girl's agent would actually send her out for said call?! Gimme a break that's just not a realistic thing to think.

[sweetiedarlinmia]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 10:54am

Jasonf, just to let you know a lot of racism these days is not someone telling you to your face they don't like you or you didn't get the job/role because you're black, b/c, of course, that is the quickest way to a lawsuit. It's the "you don't fit our concept of the piece," and then it goes to someone lacking comparable talent with lighter pigmentation. As Jazzysuite82 said, ask performers. I guarantee they can confirm what we've said here. It's not necessarily done with ill-intent (though sometimes it maybe), but whether they want to believe it or not, many people have underlying prejudices.

Updated On: 2/24/06 at 10:54 AM

[jasonf]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 11:56am

All right, then, let me ask this. Do you think that minorities SHOULD play a role such as Mary Poppins? If so, should a white person play Porgy or Bess?

[EdmundOG]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 11:57am

Did nobody notice that the writer of the article claimed that Biyalistock and Bloom weren't racially specific? I mean, you all nitpicked his Wicked example, but you let that slide?

[OrdinaryJukebox1]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 12:10pm

First of all, Eden Espinosa, although not black, isn't white either. She's Mexican. Secondly, as someone said, Saycon and another understudy are black. The new Fieyro is black. I believe one of his understudy's is black. Ben Vereen is black. Shoshana Bean...well, okay, she just THOUGHT she was black. The role of Glinda being played by a black woman would be like casting Alice Ripley as a lead in "The Color Purple." Give me a goddamn break!!!! I'm really upset that a white woman didn't get to play Caroline either. And "Raisin in the Sun" was ALL black people...I say these things with MUCH sarcasm, please don't take them seriously.

-Vincent

[EdmundOG]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 12:24pm

The role of Glinda being played by a black woman would be like casting Alice Ripley as a lead in "The Color Purple." Give me a goddamn break!!!! I'm really upset that a white woman didn't get to play Caroline either. And "Raisin in the Sun" was ALL black people...I say these things with MUCH sarcasm
------------------------------------

See, that's the kind of example that doesn't work. All the roles you mentioned are "black roles". The script requires it. Glinda is not a "white role".

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 12:26pm

You simply cannot equate Poppins with Porgy and any number of shows that deal specifically with race. The racial component of the characters and the Catfish Row setting of Porgy is clear and undeniable and there are even specific references to race in the text. It would undermine the work to present it with a racially mixed or all white cast (and it's important enough to the Gershwin estate that it won't license any production that attempts to present the piece with a mixed cast).

There is no racial component to Mary Poppins and her race (or anyone else's) goes entirely unremarked upon in the books, film and musical. While yes, I imagine that the original writer and most audiences think of Poppins as being white, isn't it a bit ironic that anyone might have a problem with a black woman playing a maid/nanny (albeit a magical one)?

[Gothampc]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 12:44pm

"There is no racial component to Mary Poppins and her race (or anyone else's) goes entirely unremarked upon in the books, film and musical."

Mary Poppins is set in a definite time period. It is Edwardian England in an upper middle class house. A black nanny would be out of place in that context.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 12:46pm

"I'm confused. What does Audra playing that role in See WHat I Wanna See have to do with race. That role isn't really race specific."

Well, first of all Kesa is Japanese. Obviously that's quite literallly colorblind casting if they're willing to cast a black woman in the role. And wouldn't it have been unusual for a black woman to be married to an upper class, white business man in the 1950s? I mean, it just seems as though even today there are people who get nutty about inter-racial relationships, but if that was so in the 1950s, that was overlooked in the casting. My point is, sometimes people will use the excuse that it "wouldn't have made sense in the time period," and while an inter-racial marriage in the 1950s may have not been the norm, it worked without a problem, didn't it?

[colleen_lee]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 12:47pm

"Mary Poppins is set in a definite time period. It is Edwardian England in an upper middle class house. A black nanny would be out of place in that context. "

And a magical, flying nanny isn't out of place?

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 12:53pm

If people bursting into song and dance and statues coming to life and doing a soft shoe number (as they do in the UK musical) doesn't strain all credulity, then why have a hang up about the nanny's color? It ain't a documentary or some naturalistic play -- it's a musical fantasy, so who the hell cares as long as she can sing and act the role?

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 12:54pm

And, Goth, the piece is not about race, and it's a piece that incorporates fantasy and magic...what does it matter if the nanny fit the race that would fit in for the social scene of the time period the play takes place in if it doesn't try to be social commentary on race, or even realistic to begin with?

Edit: Whoops, Margo and I posted at the same time, saying a very similar thing.
Updated On: 2/24/06 at 12:54 PM

[sanda]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 12:55pm

I think it is all because white culture is mainstream culture. There are more works related to that race.

Comparing to asain actors, black actors got a lot more opportunities to star a show because there are more works related to black people than asain people. How many plays or musical are dealing with asain theme on Broadway? I can count in one hand. Even someone creates some, who is interested in seeing it? Oh, Miss Saigon, M.Butterfly, yeah, I know. As an asain I can enjoy a "white" show but I truly doubt a "yellow" show can find a big audience. That is called mainstream.

It all depends on who is the creator and who is the audience.

[erinrebecca]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 12:59pm

There's an interesting report I read this morning about new casting for Billy Elliott in London for 2006. Two new Billy's this year will be minorities, one Asian and one Black. And the third one who's been cast is American! I think it will be interesting to see how the audiences respond to that. I can't wait for this show to cross the ocean to North America, which apparently is going to happen later this year, it's a fabulous production.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 1:07pm

Since you are ignoring the conventions of time and place, why not have Mary Poppins pull out a cellphone and call Bert?

While it is a fantasy piece, it is still bound to social norms of time and place.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 1:14pm

Are you kidding me, Goth? We're talking about casting the best person for the role, not changing the show in ways that make zero sense and have no purpose JUST for the heck of it.
Updated On: 2/24/06 at 01:14 PM

[DiamondGirl]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 1:22pm

With regard to the Audra/Carousel discussion, even though Carrie wasn't a specifically "white" role, this WAS a breakthrough. There were people who had a problem with a black character showing up in that time and place. In her ATW interview, Audra mentioned that there were two Carries, her and a white actress (I can't remember if this was on Broadway - did that production of Carousel begin elsewhere?). Anyway, they were on a rotating schedule, and there were regular calls to the box office about whether or not "the white on was going on" that day.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 1:47pm

All the talk about Audra in Carousel, everyone forgets that Shirley Verrett was Nettie Fowler.

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 2:02pm

Goth you would need to have a problem with Audra playing Carrie and Shirly play Nettie if you REALLY care whether or not Race matters in Mary Poppins.


Sandra, We're not talking race specific shows. We're not talking about a black show or an asian show. We're talking about shows where race is non-discript like Mary Poppins. The mainstream culture shouldn't really matter when casting a show that has nothing to do with mainstream culture.