white Broadway- Page 3

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 4:15pm

Dreamgirls should have a predominately black cast. One of the central concerns of the plot is the difficulty black R&B artists of the 60s had in crossing over to mainstream pop success and how they were able to overcome the obstacles that a racist industry put in their path at the time. The main reason Diana Ross was elevated to be the lead singer of the Supremes by Berry Gordy was that she had a neutral, almost white-sounding (eg, not overtly black or gospel-sounding) voice that had more widespread commercial appeal than Flo Ballard's did. He combined that with poise and elocution lessons, gave them glamorous outfits and hairdos and gave them catchy songs that, while they still had a beat, were arranged for a more mainstream taste (often employing strings and orchestras) and eshewing the more blues and r&b sound of labels like Stax and Atlantic at the time. All this together made the Supremes the most successful girl group in history (and one of the most successful groups of any kind ever).

The show makes absolutely no sense if you cast white girls in the lead roles. White singers didn't have to crossover or alter their look or sound for pop success -- white girls already were part of the mainstream. Supplanting Effie for Deena's smoother sound wouldn't make sense -- some of the more popular white singers of the time became famous BECAUSE they sounded more black than their counterparts. And songs like "Cadillac Car" and "Steppin to the Bad Side" would be nonsensical sung by white people.

I know that white performers have done this show in amateur productions, but casting it that way undermines what the show is all about. There are only a handful of shows where race is a major issue in the plot (Porgy and Bess, Showboat, Raisin, Ragtime, Caroline or Change, Jelly's Last Jam, Bring in Da Noise, to name a few). Casting any of them with all-white casts detracts and obscures the messages of the shows and should be avoided. For goodness sakes, if you're in an all white high school or community theatre group, then why not do one of the 1000 other shows where race is not an issue (99% of the shows ever written) rather than choosing something that's going to confuse your audience and dishonor the piece?

Updated On: 2/23/06 at 04:15 PM

[broadwaybelter]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 4:24pm

*standing ovation* take a bow margo!!

[uncageg]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 4:24pm

The Denver Center Theatre COmpany mounted "A Streetcar Named Desire" with an all black cast a few seasons ago. Quite interesting and it worked. Even with an all black cast, the audiences were predominently white.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 4:31pm

There was a great version of LONG DAY"S JOURNEY INTO NIGHT at The Public back in the early 80s starring Gloria Foster, Earle Hyman, Al Freeman Jr., and Peter Francis James. There are lots of examples of this. I'm a big supporter of non-traditional casting -- but only for works that don't specifically deal with race (which is the VAST majority of the canon).

[broadwaybelter]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 4:37pm

a lot of theatre companies near me cast all black casts of Shakespeare, I recall a recent production of Richard III that was quite good

[bare_nakedlady]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 4:38pm

Anyone read the article on Playbill today about welcoming an 'Asian' and 'Black' BILLY ELLIOT to the west end?

Billy Elliot

[Unmasked05]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 4:38pm

YAY !!!!!!!!! Margo

As and African American myself I DISAGREED with that Article...and to me it was evident that they have not done there research before they wrote that article and there were just coming from off the top of there dome.

[uncageg]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 4:53pm

I too am African American. This guy evidently does not keep up with what is happening on Broadway regarding casting, etc. I do agree with some things but it is evident that he is not as educated about Broadway as he pretends to be.

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 4:54pm

What makes me somewhat mad, and I'm sure this is going to come across all wrong, but it urks me when shows are cast as "all black" and yet nobody has anything to say about it, but if they were to do an all white version of something, people would be outraged. I guess its just a fine line, but it just gets a tad bit annoying. And I don't understand the theory that minorities flock to things that interest them. If that was so Latinologues wouldn't have failed miserabley. Also, every other black show in history would have made millions of dollars. The logic just doesn't hold up. My school right now is doing "the piano lesson" and I know there was a lot of outrage because it has to be an all black cast and a lot of people were pissed that my school chose to do this, knowing they could only pick black people.

[uncageg]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 5:08pm

RentBoy, I feel you! I deal with the African American Community here, and my thing is that if you are going to demand things, or want change at the theatre, then be there to support it. If you don't then you have no right to complain about the things you don't like.

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 5:23pm

exactly, i don't mean it in a racist way, but its just like, I don't see there being a problem with color blind casting. I really don't. I think a lot of shows on broadway have very diverse casting. Maybe not Sweeny Todd, but shows like Wicked, Hairspray, Mamma Mia have great color-blind casting. More "period" type shows do not have color-blind casting, but then again, it all has to do with the perception of that period. Like, for instance with Phantom, i'm not sure about the time, but maybe a black Christine just woudln't be feasable.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 5:36pm

You say:
"if they were to do an all white version of something, people would be outraged."

Really? That only happens when plays specifally deal with race (maybe 1% of the whole canon). Otherwise, it seems to me that almost EVERYTHING else is an "all-white version." Perhaps you don't notice it because you're white, but look around. If it's not an August Wilson play, how many black actors do you see getting cast in straight plays on Broadway? One? Adriane Lenox in DOUBT and in that case the play specifically dictates her character has to be black. What about the "colorblind" roles in Odd Couple, Barefoot In the Park, or Rabbit Hole? Why are there no black people in them (or all but one of the upcoming plays)?

Understand, I don't really have a problem with any of these shows. I'm playing devil's advocate here to make a point. Non-traditional casting is about providing opportunity to those who, because of their ethnicity, have been typically overlooked or not even considered in the past (as well as often in the present). It's an attempt to level the playing field. White actors have not been historically discriminated against in the casting process because of their race (they may have had difficulty because of their height, weight, look, etc.... but not because of the color of their skin). I would guess that (certainly up until a decade or two ago) 99+% of leading roles on Broadway went to white actors -- especially in nonmusicals. Remember, a black woman never won best actress in a play until Phylicia Rashad did it just two years ago. And the vast majority of those parts did not specify the race of the character -- black actors simply weren't chosen (if they even got a chance to audition to begin with). "All-white" productions have been the norm, not the exception throughout the long history of Broadway.


All of August Wilson's plays were about the African American experience in this country in the 20th century. The plays specifically deal America's race problem and to cast white people in them would undermine the message of the plays. In The Piano Lesson, the piano in question is a remant from slavery, a familial reminder of ancestors or struggled and died in the face of white racism to leave a legacy for future generations, who are represented on stage in the play. There is a tug of war between the brother and sister involving the sale of the piano -- the brother wants to sell it and use the proceeds to improve his hopes for the future, while the sister believes it would dishonor their past and their legacy to do so. In short, it's a VERY BLACK play and would make no sense and be ludicrous with a white cast.

Non-traditional casting is in part about giving opportunities to actors of different races and ethnic groups who historically have been denied opportunities on America's stages. It wasn't that long ago, that the only black actors you would see on a Broadway stage would be playing incidental maid and butler characters and would never even be considered for leading roles -- even ones where the race of the character is not necessary or integral to the plot.

Back when Paul Robeson played Othello (opposite Uta Hagen and Jose Ferrer -- still the longest running Shakespearean play in Broadway history), he and the cast received constant death threats not only during the Broadway run, bt especially on the subsequent national tour. The notion of an actual black actor playing the moor Othello was offensive to many people (opposite a white Desdemona), even though Shakespeare wrote the character as black (it had always been played by white actors in blackface). Despite his incredible success in that role, Robeson was never allowed to again play Shakespeare on Broadway. It would have been too controversial for him to play Macbeth or Henry V or King Lear.

It wasn't until Joe Papp founded the Public Theatre that a major arts organization advocated having actors of all colors play whatever roles they were qualified for. Papp was responsible for giving the first major exposure to actors like James Earl Jones, Morgan Freeman and Gloria Foster and the Public's many successes through the years with this philosophy has led to other theatres throughout the country to re-think their internal stereotypes and exclusionary casting policies and it's resulted in some of the more interesting productions around the country in the past several decades.

Updated On: 2/23/06 at 05:36 PM

[uncageg]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 5:45pm

And I am happy to say that I am involved with one of those regional theatres! The (Tony Award winning!)Denver Center Theatre Company.

Updated On: 2/23/06 at 05:45 PM

[Gothampc]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 5:53pm

This is what happens when people try to do color blind casting. Oh the horror!
Effie is wearing glasses

[jasonf]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 6:10pm

Maybe this has been said (I skimmed the thread), but I wanted to add my two cents here. As a teacher, I've found that I look at my class with color-blind eyes. Every kid - black, white, asian - whatever - is equal to each other. When we write plays in class, we cast them solely based on talent. Grades are given based solely on ability, not on color. In fact, last year I had a class that was 75% (I did the math one day) Indian, and I didn't even realize it until nearly half way through the year because I simply don't think of my kids as "racial" figures.

Now, I point that out because my viewpoint on topics such as this tend to be called racist, and I wanted to be very clear that I'm NOT. I am DISGUSTED by the idea of a affirmative action today. Yes, historically, I think it was important. The idea of enrolling people in school or giving people jobs based solely on the color of their skin is a backwards step in racial relations today.

The same applies to Broadway. With the exception of roles that clearly are defined as being of a particular race TO THE POINT THAT THE SHOW MAKES NO SENSE OTHERWISE, I think that casting should be opened to anyone OF TALENT. The writer of this article seems to think that minorities should be cast just for the sake of casting minorities, which is ludicrous. Should Kim in Miss Saigon be Asian and Chris be AMERICAN? Yes. Does Chris need to be white, no, of course not. Hell, I'd RATHER see Norm Lewis play Chris and get to sing some of those songs than being stuck playing the sidekick with one number. Should Effie be black? Yes, of course. Does it matter if Richard Kiley or Brian Stokes Mitchell play Don Quixote? No, not in the least (in fact, if we're going to be that picky, shouldn't a Spanish actor play him?) For that matter, was Yul Brenner from Siam? Mary Martin Austrian? Colm Wilkinson or Michael Crawford French? (Hence further enforcing the idea of who cares if the phantom is played by a white person). I'm wondering if this author would come out of a production of 1776 and be offended because Jefferson and Adams weren't played by two black men.

Roles on Broadway should purely be cast on talent, and I find it hard to believe that there are many producers (I'm sure there well might be some) who would give a role to a less talented actor who is white in a role that's traditionally been white than a much better minority. Most of the time when I see "non-traditional" casting, as long as the person is talented, the thought of "Hey, she's black" disappears in the first five minutes. The only time it REALLY raises concern is when the casting is ineffective BECAUSE the actor simply isn't good.

[Effie]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 8:55pm

Anyone who thinks non-traditional casting is a bad idea need only look at Audra MacDonald. She got her big break and first Tony when Nicholas Hytner cast Carousel non-traditionally. She received another Tony for Master Class, in which she played a character whose race was not specified either. I don't think the Earth stopped turning in either instance.

Every time someone raises the issue of equality or diversity or non-traditional casting, people who disagree get so indignant. Instead of getting indignant, why not try to see the situation from another person's point of view. An earlier poster brought up the supposed hypocrisy of Asians being upset about the Jonathan Pryce/Miss Saigon situation. Instead of being the ten thousandth opponent of non-traditional casting to bring that up, why not imagine what it's like for an Asian actor. The chances of getting cast in a "white" show are slim to none. Finally, along comes a great, big Broadway musical with an Asian (or half-Asian) lead character. You think, "great, finally I have a chance to audition for a part and only worry about being good." But no, even that opportunity gets taken away from you because they cast a white guy. I promise you if Asians had equal opportunities to star in "white" shows, nobody would have complained.

There's a DVD of broadway performances from the old Ed Sullivan show. One of the performers was Pat Suzuki singing "I Enjoy Being a Girl" from Flower Drum Song. I'd never heard of her before, but she was wonderful. If R&H hadn't written an Asian musical would she have ever starred on Broadway? My guess is no, and that's too bad. She would have been great in any number of 50's and 60's musicals. No, they weren't specifically written Asian, but so what? An actor is an actor is an actor.

And for the record, JasonF, affirmative action is not about giving someone a job or enrolling them in a school "soley based on their race." That's just drivel conservative politicians spoon feed the American public to foster divisiveness and get votes from "victimized" white people. Affirmative action means approaching hiring situations with an open mind. Casting Audra in Carousel was "affirmative action." Did she take the job away from a white person? Probably. Was she the best person for the job? I assume so, but who knows? Nicholas Hytnter might have had an "agenda." I don't think the Broadway community was in any way, shape or form harmed.
Updated On: 2/23/06 at 08:55 PM

[jasonf]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 9:19pm

Any time a job or position is filled where a quota needs to be met, that IS giving a job based solely on race, and that's what I was talking about in my earlier post. Yes, that's a distortion of the original intent of affirmitive action (and I am for equality, again, as per my earlier post) - but that's what has happened in a lot of areas. I don't think this applies to most Broadway casting issues, so it's off topic anyway.

I'm all for casting the best person in a role unless the role is specified. No one is ever going to cast Audra Macdonald as Mother and Marin Mazzie as Sarah in Ragtime. That makes no sense (I realize that's an extreme example).

My point was (and again, I have no idea how this applies to Broadway specifically) that filling a job because a quota of minorities needs to be reached is not only unfair to the more qualified people, but also unfair to the morale of the minorities (I would think). I know I would not be particularly happy knowing I got a position I wasn't qualified for because of my race or religion, but because I filled someone's quota.

I think the author of this article would be all in favor of that -- setting a quota for minorities in various productions, and what a travesty that would end up being. Except for the specifically defined roles in certain shows, cast the best people, hire the best people, enroll the best people everywhere. It rewards those deserving, and pushes those who aren't ready to strive to BE more capable.

I will add this, though - I can't think of any roles off the top of my head that REQUIRE a white person be cast in a role UNLESS there is a racial issue per se, in which case there would be roles for black actors as well. Try casting a white person in Porgy and Bess...

[Doogie]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 9:37pm

BUT...

In all of Audra's roles, she never played a "white" woman.

There are references in Dreamgirls to characters being black. Say you had a black girl who could sing Magnolia in "Show Boat" beautifully, better than any white girls. It wouldn't work! Because Magnolia being white and Julia being racially mixed is part of the fabric of the show. Carrie Pipperidge is racially nonspecific. I hate when people say that was such a breakthrough. Audra was the best performer for the role, and she got it. But its not like she could play Mother in Ragtime. Likewise, Marin Mazzie could not play Sarah.

Sorry. In a few shows, that cannot bend.

[Flahooley]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 9:44pm

I just want to publicly say I support everything that Jazzysuite82 has written here. Jazzysuite82 and I had, I believe, a difference about FINIAN'S RAINBOW a while back. But here I'm in total agreement.

This part of my message is for those who are not European-American, but love the theatre:

We must all drop this minority-mentality. We are the MAJORITY of the worlds population. We must also support and encourage the works of non-European-American writers and artists, even the not so great ones. We can learn a LOT by Euro-American artists, but we have even MORE to give. So my Asian, African, Native, Latino brothers and sisters, start writing our plays, telling our stories and learning our crafts. European-Americans don't really care about voices (unless it sells) so we must be the ones who nuture and support each other. Good luck! The tide will turn.

[sweetiedarlinmia]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 10:14pm

Every time issues of race and, in this field, color-blind casting come up, I always refer to this quote:

"For those of you who are tired of hearing about racism, imagine how much more tired we are of constantly experiencing it, second by literal second, how much more exhausted we are to see it constantly in your eyes."
-Barbara Smith

I love Audra McDonald, as many here know, however not every minority performer has the undeniable talent of Ms. McDonald. There are thousands of minority performers who are qualified for roles, may actually be the best person for the role, but "don't fit our concept of the piece." That statement right there is what keeps a lot of talent minority performers from roles. Producers and directors unwilling to step away from notions of the past and realize that the past has many a flaw in thinking. Of course, if race plays an issue the role should be cast accordingly. No one is advocating the disrespect of a piece for the sake of putting one more minority on the stage. What IS being advocated is that casting doesn't come down to looking/listening to a great voice & perfmance, but it's coming out of a black/asian/hispanic etc. person so we have to pause and consider the reaction. And for anyone here to put forth the notion that this doesn't happen, is quite mistaken.

-my 2 pennies

Edit:
I agree with everything you said, Flahooley!

Updated On: 2/23/06 at 10:14 PM

[It's All Good]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 10:38pm

I would be VERY interested to hear some actual statisitcs about the number of minority actors v. caucasian ones making the rounds in NY( maybe some equity statistics?) I hate that this is my perception, but it seems to me that theater is primarily a white field, both in audience demographics(which has been mentioned before) but also in the racial make-up of actors. I attended many college auditions this season and 90% of the people auditioning were, as they always are, caucasian females. If these are the people mainly making up the audition pool, than doesn't it accordingly make sense that they are the people primarily getting jobs?

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 12:45am

Well of course. THere are minorities for a reason. But that's not the problem. I don't think people are saying there should be a 50-50 ratio of blacks to whites. That's not realistic. I think, as I said before, it's easy to sit here and say that there's lots of black performers on broadway. I'm sure most of this comes from white people. The main problem comes in not in well this white person was better for the role, but you're not right BECAUSE you're black. I used the examples of Eliza Doolittle, Mary Poppins, and Desiree Armfeldt. I think casting directors have no imaginations a lot of times. A lot of people are looking to refill the originals. WE need to have a Fair-skinned, brunette with a turned up nose for Mary Poppins. WHY? because they want Julie Andrews.

[COOOOLkid]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 1:18am

This thread reminds me of "Everyone's a Little Bit Racist" from Ave. Q...

I'm sure as the time pass, there'll be even more minorities playing the role on Broadway. I sort of agree/disagree with the article. It's very hard for the minorities to be selected in the role that wasn't meant to be for a specific ethnicity. Just because there was one African-American playing the Phantom or an Asian performer playing Eponine, that doesn't mean that we can forget about casting even more minorities because we already have done it before.

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 1:27am

well, maybe i'm being ignorant in this topic, but aren't there more white people in the United States? So wouldn't it make sense, that its that way? I mean I wouldn't expect white actors to be the prodominent race in Mexico or something like that.

There's the new LaChiusa show that opened that employed many minority actors. I think shows like Rabbit hole were sorta going for the all-white cast. I mean, I think it sorta was the point. To be this like all-american suburban type story.

I just have a hard time believing that people set out to cast all white shows. I think its all based on talent. Cherry Jones was in Doubt, not because she's white but because she was amazing. Brandi and Saycon are in Wicked because they are great singers/actors, not because they're black.

[NYC4Life]

Posted: 2/24/06 at 1:35am

"Like, for instance with Phantom, i'm not sure about the time, but maybe a black Christine just woudln't be feasable."

But an opera ghost that terrorizes the cast and crew of the French Opera House while tutoring a chorus girl is very feasable?

Do people really think Mary Poppins being black would be odd? Can people really allow fantasy but not when it comes to race?Mary Poppins can fly!?

If Les Miserables can cast other than white so can Sweeney Todd or other period shows that dont deal with the characters race.

And in contemporary plays why would it be weird if people had children of a diffrent race. Is adoption really that odd for people to come up with on their own. If i see something in a movie, on t.v. or on a broadway show and they character has children of a diffrent race, i would think they are adopted and move on to more important things, LIKE THE PLOT! It is all fiction and alot of time fantasy.