Making It On Broadway - thoughts- Page 2

[Al Dente]

Posted: 8/10/04 at 4:26pm

Thank you Orion. I thought my post was rather self explanatory, but clearly it got lost translation. I also beg to differ about "disparaging" the actress. The only people doing any disparaging, were the whiney actors/actresses who the author interviewed who made being (in or out of) the chorus of a B'way show seem about as tedious as having to hang on scaffolding and clean windows for a living. Gratitude didn't seem to be a strong theme with the actors in the book.

[NYC20042]

Posted: 8/10/04 at 5:06pm

You obviously have never been on Broadway...

[Al Dente]

Posted: 8/10/04 at 7:13pm

Now *that*, if nothing else, should be blatantly obvious.

[Shawk]

Posted: 8/10/04 at 7:14pm

A lot of the quotes did have a negative slant, but then, negative is generally seen as more interesting than pages and pages of sparkly joy. Some of the quotes did come across as whiny, and there did seem to be an agenda to the arrangement, but then, a book of random quotes with no agenda to organize it would probably be rather idiotic.

Jodie Langell was in Les Miserables, so it's somehow not surprising that many of the quotes would come from Les Miz actors; it's actually surprising to me that some of those people were willing to be quoted in such bitterness, as that's probably not going to help with their careers.

I found the book an interesting glimpse into the world of some Broadway actors, and an interesting look at what the authors and some actors find as problems with Broadway. Emphasis on some.

[Al Dente]

Posted: 8/10/04 at 7:17pm

Careful Shawk, or you'll get a severe tongue "typing" from NYC20042.

[Shawk]

Posted: 8/10/04 at 7:20pm

Oh goody. Perhaps one day, I can be quoted in "Making it on Broadway World."

[Al Dente]

Posted: 8/10/04 at 7:24pm

:)

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 8/10/04 at 9:04pm

NYC20042, have you been on Broadway and is it just like hanging on scaffolding cleaning windows? If so, go find another vocation and leave Broadway for the new people who appreciate the gift that a job as a performer is. There are plenty waiting.

Updated On: 8/10/04 at 09:04 PM

[Thundersong]

Posted: 8/11/04 at 5:20pm

Hey guys,
I totally appreciate all your points of view. I just thought I'd chime in as a contributor to the book.
When Jodi and David first started collecting stories quite a number of years ago, they had no idea the direction that the book would eventually take. It was the interviews themselves that set the tone and took us all on the journey, you included.
It's very easy to say that we become disgruntled, or are frustrated with the apparently shame-ridden task of "chorus boy" or "chorus girl". The point is that we all came to New York for a reason: because there is a burning inside which many of you feel too that cannot be denied. Even after one becomes "bitter". It is sad at times when you long for the innocence of ignorance, especially when the reality of the business of show business kicks in.
The desire to perform is not extinguished with your first Broadway contract. If anything, gasoline is poured on your fire. You think "well a tv series MUST be next for me I'm sure". But the true nature of the beast is as terrifying as it is beautiful. You can't just walk away, even when you want to. What are you supposed to leave the business to go do when there is one thing and one thing only that feeds your soul? You can't just walk away when what feeds you begins to feed ON you.
Of course the book is filled with stories from one segment of the community. Jodie extended herself amongst the people she knew and that they knew. But while you can say only one side is represented, all those other points of view are what we normally hear about Broadway in every other boring book about the boards. You wanna rehash the glam and glitz and keep your head in the sand, go for it. But I will personally hang anyone from the TKTS booth who has any more rude comments about someone's credits. (Anyone who knows me knows that while I've got a tone of humor right now, you might want to worry that I'm a little serious.)
A career is built in time. There is no such thing as overnight success. I am proud to have been in the chorus at times learning from amazing people like Douglas Sills, for one, and even felt fortunate to be in the chorus of the notorious DOTV. (If you're gonna go down you might as well ride the Hindenburg at mach 5 with your hair on fire screaming like Geronimo.) I don't care if I'm headlining in Vegas, supporting cast off-Broadway, or holding my banana in the back row of the jungle on Broadway. It doesn't matter. Don't belive me? Name all the winners of the Tony Award off the top of your head for the last five years. And if you can do that, name how many have really crossed over to "Entertainment Tonight" land.
Harvey Evans was in the original cast of West Side Story, performed "Tulsa" in GYPSY with Merman, eventually UNDERSTUDYING decades later in the Oklahoma revival. His is a career anyone would be blessed to emulate. Knock that mean resume-dissing crap off. There's nothing creative about being nasty.
Other than defending Jodie and David, the thing I really wanted to say is that I wish this book had been written before I got my first Broadway show. I would have been miles ahead of the game had I not had to learn these things for myself. It's a discovery process that takes a long time once you get past the deep sadness of realizing your dream, while still beautiful, is nothing like you had imagined.
So all I can say is, learn what you can from the book, it's not the final word on theater. Any discussion of the things that can help improve what we all love is a good thing.
Now play nice, make an appointment with your acting or vocal coach, and go buy a ticket to see something...

Doug Storm

[Thundersong]

Posted: 8/11/04 at 5:28pm

One more thing...
EVERYONE I know has done sh*tty jobs between shows. Like hanging scaffolding. We know what it's like to appreciate the "gift" of theater.
The problem arises when this "gift" no longer provides steady income for your children or your landlord. When there are others that you are responsible for, but yet there's nothing in the world you want to do but continue this quest for the Grail.
You should have been backstage the day Deven May and I were painting the dressing rooms at "Forbidden Broadway" and company members were coming in for rehearsal saying "hey weren't you the dudes from BAT BOY?"
Response: "Yup. So how do you like the color?"
Ahhh... life in the theater. The gift.

[kitkatgirl54]

Posted: 8/11/04 at 6:14pm

thank you for posting, doug. i agree that this book is a welcome change of pace from the usual books about the theater profession written for people on the outside looking in. the authors took a strong stand, presented their credo, and that is never a bad thing (even if the overall tone of the book was based completely on the interviews themselves, the authors did agree to take this stand by writing the book). however, when all of these stories are written on paper and taken out of the context of the particular actor's life, it's difficult to understand that they are not just merely complaining .. after the first 20 pages or so it was difficult for me to keep the names and faces straight in my head and it became like a steady wash of "broadway actors" rather than individuals. your story about giving the girl the poster provided a second layer to the book. it showed a glimmer behind everything and, to me, suddenly the book became multi-faceted. hopefully when people on this board were complaining that the book was too much of a downer, they meant that they wanted a little more dimension behind it. i think that this book could still have taken the same stand but had a few more stories of "yes. this is why i am doing this" shining through the cracks.

at my school i have heard the words "when i get famous" or "when i'm on broadway" more times than i can count. most of all, i'm so glad this book was written so i can lend it to them ... this book doesn't ruin dreams, i think it just creates another dimension for them to think about and should definitely be used as a learning tool. Updated On: 8/11/04 at 06:14 PM

[Shawk]

Posted: 8/11/04 at 6:21pm

^ Thanks for your thoughts.

I think it's a bit tough for those of us not in the acting career to sympathize with some of the bitterness in the book; I mean, I do data entry for a living and I'd much rather be writing or creating art. The fact that the current "real world" doesn't particularly reward the arts except in certain limited circumstances wouldn't make it ok for me to... I don't know, walk into different meetings here at work that I wasn't supposed to, to keep myself entertained. And this isn't even a job I ever wanted.

There are obviously things wrong with Broadway, and the book highlights what one segment of people think they are. And some of the stories are heartbreaking. But at the same time, very few people in this world get anywhere close to their dreams, and while it's good to see that much of Broadway is a fantasy, so are a lot of dreams.

It would be unrealistic to expect any book to not have a slant, no matter in what direction. Simply by having an opinion and something to want to relay to an audience is going to give a book some sort of agenda. That’s not automatically a bad thing. I found some of the book to be refreshing in that it wasn't your stock "How happy are we" quotes, but at the same time, there weren't a lot of happy moments in there that would give a sense of balance.

Anyway, good luck to you in all that you do, and thanks for sharing your perspective.

PS: I cried like a big sap at the poster story.

[Thundersong]

Posted: 8/11/04 at 7:23pm

You are so right.
But I guess what I failed to make clear is that the tone of the book isn't something the the authors sought after. The tape recorders ran and the actors mouths did too. The reason why the names eventually bled away is because the book did exactly what it was meant to for you the reader. Which is to tap into the collective vibe of a great deal of the community. The common thoughts and feelings.
It's not about the individual stories. More of a psychological profile of a huge segement of professional actors.
I for one was quite shocked when I realized so many of my colleagues were feeling the exact same way. It was very freeing, to tell you the truth.
As far as "dreams" go, performing on Broadway is truly more business than show. Regional and community theater have more heart in their art because it's filled with people who are there for no reason other than they LOVE it. At the level of Broadway, it becomes a career. And like anything else, a grind. How you pay your bills.
Sure it's great to be able to get up and play make-believe for a few hours lying to a roomful of strangers and occasionally forgeting about life while you channel one of your many personalities. But after a while, it becomes your cubicle.
You're right. Not everyone loves their jobs. But those of you who are sitting back thinking "man I'd REALLY love to be doing THAT right now" should know that it's not all wine and roses.
Someone told me once that the people who think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence has been smoking a lot of it.
Dudes, (and dudettes), it's glorious. Prepare for it. Go for it. Do it. Or sit back and love it. Just know every angle. Even the side you have to wipe once and a while.

[Thundersong]

Posted: 8/11/04 at 7:43pm

Ok I had another thought.
Damn ADD.
The "art" of Broadway mostly lies in the rehearsal process. THAT is when things are discovered and created. Then once in performance, it becomes about maintainence and recreation.
You can hole up in your office when you've had a fight with your spouse, or lost your dog, or any other personal trauma. But when you've got to "put it on" and forget about your life and the things that ultimately REALLY matter, that's when it becomes difficult. That's when it becomes just like delivering for Pizza Hut driving along listening to the radio and saying "damn are they playing THAT song again?". How about a new title of "Making it on Broadway: All the sucky things about theater that you really don't mind at the end of the day".
Go watch the movie "Groundhog Day". That's what doing 8 shows a week is about. You don't have to be jaded to be sitting there thinking "I hope my VCR is getting 'FRIENDS'. Oh sh*t! Gavroche, pass the bullets!"
But oh man... there was no rush like coming downstage singing "Will you join in our crusade?"
Would I do it all again, pain and everything?
What do you think...

[Shawk]

Posted: 8/11/04 at 7:52pm

^ See, but I didn't really get that message from the book. I got that megamusicals are basically rote, Disney is making everything commercial where you're the same as the next guy playng a clump of grass or whatever, that the performers, even those who want to care, are ground down by the system, woe, woe, and again woe. I think a few more reflections something along the lines of what you just said, not removing any of the gritty, unpleasant reality that some have experienced, would have made a difference. I'm not saying that those experiences are not valid, only that it makes the book seem slanted.

Anyway, kudos to you for going after what fulfills you.

I'm going back to my data entry now.

Updated On: 8/11/04 at 07:52 PM

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 8/12/04 at 12:05am

Doug, thanks for writing. I agree with your point of view; however, that's not what bothered me about the book. I knew before picking it up that the life of a stage actor was hard; I learn that everyday by reading the posts on this board. So in that aspect, the book presented nothing surprising to me.

Again, I thoroughly enjoyed Making It on Broadway, and thought it a very welcome addition to the other literature on theatre out there. However, the problems I had with the book had to do with some of the blatant holes and omissions, and the subtle slanting and directed focus of the quotations. (I outlined most of these in my first post. For example, there was a whole chapter on sex, but none on the pertinent issue of race; and some shows were heavily discussed [including the ill-fated Martin Guerre, which never even made it to Broadway], while other equally-prominent and "landmark" shows were all but ignored, like Phantom or Rent.)

I certainly don't think the authors had any ill intent or had an agenda in mind when editing the book; indeed, I think they did a good job overall, and it's to their credit that we were able to critique the book so closely, rather than in broad strokes. Still, the breadth and ambition of the book and only made its flaws all the more visible and incriminating (for lack of a better word). I would have liked a more balanced (in terms of specifically focusing on some issues while completely ignoring others) and objective approach.

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 8/12/04 at 2:23am

Thanks, Doug, for sharing your many eloquent thoughts about ''Making It on Broadway.'' Having interviewed one of the co-authors (David Wienir), I, too, am convinced that neither he nor Jodi Langel started with a specific agenda, but certainly common threads and similar opinions kept popping up. My hat's off to all the actors who were candid enough to share the nitty-gritty details of a life in the theater, and the authors for cataloguing them. Is the book perfect? No. I agree with Blue Wizard that it could've dealt more with race, which is an area this book sidesteps, but is a factor in showbiz as it is in life.

As for the topic of sexuality, that's a tricky area. Actually, there are, of course, gay men quoted in the book, but almost none of them talk about being gay in the theater. The truth is: A number of gay actors are not ''out'' publicly and won't talk about it because they fear it might affect their careers.

I'm sure the authors of ''Making It on Broadway'' never intended their book to be the definitive and last word on the topic. Maybe it'll encourage other writers to tackle those other aspects of theater, too (i.e., race, sexuality). But the book has started a dialogue, and ultimately, that's a healthy thing.

[JMVR]

Posted: 8/12/04 at 3:29am

I just read the book and found it did provide me with an insight into the dark sid of working (or wanting to work) on Broadway. Still, I must admit that some of the stories did seem a little too far fetched. While I do not doubt that the actors had a hard time getting to wherever they are today, some of them might have "embellished" their past mishaps a little. Some of the stories about suhers killing rats in the aisles during the performance by putting boxes over them and stepping on the box, for example, are just a bit much.

I was somewhat surprised to read so many quotes from Antonio Banderass, who to the best of my knowledge has been in ONE show and for a limited run at that, with the star treatment, yet you'd think he was John Raitt or Nathan Lane the way he prentend to really know what it's like. I know he did theater in Spain but this is a different ballgame.

We all know acting on the stage is hard, the pay is poor and the conditions could certainly be better. We know unemployment awaits the end of your engagement. But I think some actors did enjoy playing the humiliated slaves of the Broadway evils and might have overdramatized certain parts of their intervews. It's not like the author were going to verify that there were "hundreds of cockroaches in the cupboards" as one actress claims, or that there were mice droppings in the makeup (how did the little critters ever open the makeup containers in order to relieve themselves?).

My conclusion, good book, many an insight and also many an exaggeration. Still, I wouls recommend it, we're big boys and can read a book and decide for ourselves what to keep in our minds after we've read it.