Some dance thing I just want to clear up- Page 2

[Josh Freilich]

Posted: 2/22/06 at 2:40pm

Is it not supposed to be a stereotype of musicals?

There's a really small bit of it in HAIRSPRAY during the finale, most of which come from Tracy. If you look more closely in the Tony '03 performance, you'll notice some of the other ensemble members do it as well.

[Josh Freilich]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 12:22pm

hate to bump it, but...

[Pinaud]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 12:37pm

I hate to be mean, but Josh, why do you need examples of "skirt work" to justify using it in your own choreography? I know you didn't say you needed justification, but it just sounds that way. In Secret Garden the ladies were not doing a "swish", they were holding their dresses up so they did not step on them, which was a common practice of the period. If you're just looking for ideas, I would say investigate the social dances of different time periods(which are important to a choreographerin general), and you'll see sometimes when it is common to touch and use the skirt.

If "skirt work" is part of the overall picture you want to present in a number(and is appropriate), then use it.

[Josh Freilich]

Posted: 2/23/06 at 4:23pm

sorry...

i think this is where it ends...

sorry I even brought it up.

[Josh Freilich]

Posted: 3/27/06 at 3:21pm

okay: I only wanted to do this because nobody points that technique out on these boards, not because I wanted to choreograph.

I did this just because it's a move that I see in a lot of musicals, and I wanted to see if anybody has either done it or seen it in musicals they saw.

That's basically the point I wanted to get across.

[Josh Freilich]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 11:57am

oh...and while I was basically bringing up that issue because I was pointing it out...

I believe there was some in Bernarda Alba, because it is a flamenco show. I haven't seen it, and I expect to see it on its closing perf.

And there was some in a production of "Hello Dolly" that I did. Some could've been because the skirts were long, and they needed to hold them up so they didn't step on them, but there were some that some of them just did because it looked good, like in the "Dancing" break.

And for the record, "The Secret Garden" had the "minuet" dance in it, and the girls holding up the right side of their dresses was the proper formation in that dance, because the boys' free hands were at their own backsides, and the girls had no place to put theirs.

[sabrelady]

Posted: 4/8/06 at 7:10pm

I think Oliver! has some- "Who Will Buy?" and "It's A Fine Life."

[Josh Freilich]

Posted: 4/10/06 at 9:06pm

Sabrelady, while you were thinking Oliver, there are two others: "I'd Do Anything" and "Oom-Pah-Pah."

[ILoveMyDictionary]

Posted: 4/11/06 at 8:34pm

I did some swishing during "The Spanish Panic" In Once Upon a Mattress, and in "Oom Pah Pah" in Oliver.

[Josh Freilich]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 11:30pm

I thought they used it in "spanish Panic."

Any in the MOVIE version of "Seven Brides", since somebody mentioned a production they saw?

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 11:38pm

I'm not exactly sure what you mean...

In BERNARDA ALBA the girls lifted up the front part of their dresses and swayed them (don't know the technical term)...particularily the character of Adela during her song.

Some other characters do it, but not in the way I think you mean...

The only time in that show the dresses swiveled was if a character spun - and that was physics.

[Josh Freilich]

Posted: 5/19/06 at 2:51pm

Yeah, I mentioned Bernarda Alba before.

A friend of mine said she did it before in "Once Upon a Mattress" during that same part. "Spanish Panic". That's right.

Some people said they did it in "Grease" too. I could tell, but where in particular?

Posted: 5/19/06 at 3:22pm

"I recall doing a lot of swishing in Annie Get Your Gun during "I've Got the Sun in the Morning," and also, of course, during the Italian and Can-Can scenes. Actually, there was some in "I'll Share It All," too...good swishing show."

There was also a lot of swishing by the male ensemble while Tom Wopat sang "My Defenses Are Down." Not sure if that continued when Brent Barrett replaced him. I was too busy looking at Brent

[Josh Freilich]

Posted: 8/30/06 at 5:30pm

Brief section of the FAME movie, but they're just holding the skirts out. It's not much, but it was a folkdancing scene. I just thought I'd mention it.

[gumbo2]

Posted: 8/30/06 at 5:53pm

In response to your Lambeth Walk...DEFINITELY, it's like the whole number, hahaha. And...when I did Fiddler the girls did a lot of swishing at the wedding, in the dance section either before the bottle dance or right before the Russians come to break up the party. So you're right on both accounts. And definitely Music Man too but I think you already mentioned that.

[Josh Freilich]

Posted: 9/24/06 at 7:19pm

"DEFINITELY, it's like the whole number, hahaha."

Yeah, you're right. Near the end, they're all swishing it up.

"In BERNARDA ALBA the girls lifted up the front part of their dresses and swayed them (don't know the technical term)...particularily the character of Adela during her song."

There is no "technical term" but most people refer to it as skirtwork for short. Makes perfect sense for it to be a part of "Bernarda Alba" because it has a flamenco-ish feel to it, and there are all girls in it, so... yeah.

[Josh Freilich]

Posted: 11/17/06 at 1:01pm

I'm currently playing in the pit for a production of SCROOGE: The Musical in Snug Harbor in Staten Island. I talked to one of the cast members about how interesting the dance numbers were. I found out that the dancing in that (particularly in Fezziwig's "December the 25th" and Tom Jenkins' "Thank You Very Much") is much like Pinaud interpreted it. The dresses are too long and too wide to skip, hop and jump in (this is DICKENS!!!), so the girls hold up the skirts so they won't trip.

Pretty much the same thing can be said with DROOD, if anybody agrees with me. I know I've seen it in the opening scene of THE WEDDING SINGER, because much of the dresses of the '80s were so poofy (not to mention incredibly ugly to some people) that it was so tough to line-dance in.

In fact, Pinaud is TOTALLY right. If it looks appropriate for the number or period, then they should definitely use it. Also, I must agree with CurtainPullDowner, because the choreographer needs to ask the costume designer what they're going to be wearing because that's what makes it looks good. Depends: if you're going to use something with a lot of leg work in it (like Fosse), the costume is going to have to be pantlike or miniskirtlike. And if the costume is very long, wide, or spinny (like in OKLAHOMA or MEET ME IN ST. LOUIS or MUSIC MAN or something along those lines), it makes perfect sense to swish it around.

Anybody else want to discuss what they have done and/or seen (especially if it's the same show).

[tcoppola]

Posted: 11/17/06 at 3:50pm

Firstly, I don't quite know what you're trying to "clear up" based on your subject line. The subject line sounds like you're going to impart some much needed knowledge or wisdom on some crazy dance misconception, and then it's just, um...what? A question? An observation?

Secondly, I wouldn't necessarily call "skirt work" a technique. It is a stylistic use of a costume and in the shows that have been listed, the styles vary greatly based on the show, time period, music, etc.: WSS is much more heated and sharp skirt moves whereas Carousel or Oklahoma would be more full skirt holding, sweeping, etc.

I wouldn't even seperate the term as "skirt work". It's all part of the choreography, much in the same way as port de bras would be classified: The arms need to move in a certain way during a choreographed piece and sometimes, so does the costume.

I'm not saying that it is exclusively used for creative expression of the piece--of course, when it needs to practically be used for safety issues, etc., that is something else entirely and needs to be fashioned to work with the overall feel of the piece.

[lildogs]

Posted: 11/17/06 at 4:13pm

Is Norb directing that Josh?

When I was in GREASE, the skirt work was in the hand jive after Johnny sings "Yeah, yeah, yeah" before everyone comes in on "Born to hand jive.." the guys and girls split off and the guys were upstage in a flat line while the girls did the skirt work down front.

[broadwaystar2b]

Posted: 11/17/06 at 4:36pm

No one's mentioned Hello, Dolly! ?

Really now, "Sunday Clothes", "Dancing", "Elegance", c'mon folks

[Josh Freilich]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 12:42pm

Yes, lildogs. Norb Joerder is directing it. How did you know he was? You so smart.

Thanks broadwaystar2b for the addition!

[Dancinqueen123]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 1:45pm

I did a lot of "swishing" when I was in Beauty and the Beast. I was a napkin, so I guess it was just fitting for the part, but I also remember that the Silly Girls did a lot of swishing during "Gaston." It was pretty much their basic coreography.

[Josh Freilich]

Posted: 1/1/07 at 11:32am

Not only is skirtwork prominent in DIRTY DANCING: the movie, but I just saw a couple of clips from the London stage musical, and it's equally as prominent there.

[roseinthewinter2]

Posted: 1/1/07 at 11:55am

By "circle skirts" do you mean hoop skirts that they bounce and "swish" to the music (a la THE KING AND I)? Or just skirts with lots of volume that they use as "props" almost to swish around while dancing? 'Cause that's what they do in WSS, I don't know if I'd think of it as a circle skirt (when I first saw that I thought hoop skirts, but then I was like, wait that's not in those show...).

[FosseForever3]

Posted: 1/1/07 at 12:07pm

was in Cinderella last fall and we did quite a bit of skirt work in "Prince is Giving a Ball" and of course the "Ten Minutes Ago" waltz