Lyrics That Sound Nice, but make no sense- Page 4

[overthemoonboy]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 2:30pm

PRFRMR20,

That's the best analysis of that song I've ever heard. I'm in the show right now, and people make fun of it backstage by whispering, "acid trip!"

[DeNada]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 2:33pm

Going back to the start of the thread, I don't see what's so confusing about Elaborate Lives. Radames wishes that life wasn't so complicated and that circumstances didn't conspire against him and Aida hooking up, Aida thinks the same, let the kissing commence. The verses refer to Radames' pretence in stringing Amneris along, IMHO.

Any Dream Will Do comes at the end of the show (at least in the UK it does!), and I see it as a recap of Joseph's "journey" and the fact that the whole show is told as a story. Life was a bit dull and sheltered, then he got his coat and it was awesome, he lost the coat and it sucked again (being thrown in jail and all), and now the show's about to finish and he's stepping into an unknown future as chief dream interpreter for the Pharaoh not knowing what's coming.

Interesting that both of these lyrics are by Tim Rice, who also wrote the Evita lyrics people are complaining about (which have always seemed crystal clear to me).

[Pianolin717]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 2:33pm

"What if you're in the first story of a house, looking up? It's a CEILING. Would you call it the floor, since it's essentially the floor for the second story of the house? And what about a house with an attic? Roof is outside, ceiling is inside, and they're not two sides of the same coin. Roofs frequently aren't just.... paper-thin slabs stuck on a house. They have dead space inside, for insulation and support and such"

ok, a roof can be a ceiling too, but a ceiling cant be a roof....
Its the same as in math... squares are considered rectangles, but rectangles cant be squares...

[overthemoonboy]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 2:36pm

DeNada, in all productions of the show I've seen/done, ADWD is right after the prologue, and is reprised in the finale.

[PRFRMR20]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 2:45pm

Correct in the UK version and the original ADWD is at the end, but the American productions, including Broadway, has was overthemoonboy said... right after the prologue ad reprised for the finale as little duet with the narrator into Give Me My Colored coat.

I like some of the things you said DeNada! Good ideas.

As I said, up until the post about ADWD, I never contemplated the lyrics (Joseph, though my first Bway show, isn't on the list of those I listen to and think/talk about on a daily basis). I looked at the song and that was the first thing that came to mind and made sense. Thanks for your compliments! I do see a pattern here with Tim Rice... Cats, Joseph, Aida, Evita

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 2:59pm

Perhaps Hammerstein meant for the character to sound like a dumbass and say "roof". I mean, she's not the brightest bulb on the midway. Technically, a roof is just an overhead cover on a structure. Who's to say the mill wasn't one of those barnlike structures where the roof actually was the ceiling, very high with exposed support beams? Given the period, it would make sense. Looking at this picture of a 19th century textile mill in Maine puts a little perspective on it.

[PRFRMR20]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 3:05pm

It looks like the woman all the way on the right is being scalped by that hook!

[jasonf]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 3:14pm

I never thought I'd start something so huge with this!

I'll concede the possibility of a ceiling being a roof under MisterMatt's conditions of beams that act as both - but in a traditional, modern room they are two different things.

While some posters do seem to be struggling with literary devices, it is possible for some devices to simply not be effective as well...

And to add to the thread, though it's technically not a theater related lyric (though it is in We Will Rock You) what's with Freddie Mercury singing "Fried chicken" at the end of One Vision?

[PRFRMR20]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 3:17pm

According to Wikipedia and it sound pretty believable,

"The final line of the song (in both the studio and live versions) is "fried chicken", although the lyrics say "One vision". This was a result of a prank that Freddie Mercury did in the studio, as the band had fried chicken for dinner. Jim Hutton, last lover of Freddie Mercury, says in his book that Freddie Mercury wasn't sure he would include it in the final cut. Jim Hutton encouraged him saying "You are big enough" (to get away with it)."

[sally1112]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 3:30pm

Some of these debates are absolutely stupid.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 3:51pm

Mister Matt, I actually do like that Elphaba throws that line in the Wizard's face, but it just doesn't make sense to say "lately" in that instance. "Lately" means something else, as in "Have I told you lately that I love you" or "these are things people have told me lately." It usually doesn't refer to a specific thing that a specific person said at a specific time. "Recently" or "as someone once told me" or any other variant would have made more sense. Or just take out the adverb altogether.

The "blame" line still doesn't make sense to me. Also, I've never heard anyone sing it as "the things I've done... you blame me for." They usually just sing through the whole line. So if that's the intent, I've never heard anyone sing it with that in mind.

Either way, these Wicked lyrics neither sound nice nor make sense, so they have no place in this thread. :)

~Steven

[sparrman]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 4:09pm

"And in general, its kinda funny that all these "theater buffs" have no idea what the hell it is they are appreciating."

That's why we're all so very, very grateful to have you around to condescend to us, "Ole Chum".

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 4:22pm

"Lately" means something else, as in "Have I told you lately that I love you" or "these are things people have told me lately." It usually doesn't refer to a specific thing that a specific person said at a specific time. "Recently" or "as someone once told me" or any other variant would have made more sense.

Actually, "lately" quite literally means recently, not long since, not long ago, of late, and in the recent past. You can also say "Have a I told you recently that I love you" or "these are things people have told me recently". "Lately" can absolutely mean something specific that was said, but since Elphaba uses the word "someone", its use here is very appropriate, much in the way you imply. It may not be the way you would personally say it, but it is correct and it does make sense.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 4:40pm

Fair enough. I don't use them interchangeably and have never heard it as it's used in Wicked. Perhaps that's why it doesn't make sense to me.

~Steven

[eatlasagna]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 4:48pm

so... as much as you all hate (or are annoyed) with the lyrics in WICKED and other shows... you all think they sound nice, right? cuz that's what the original poster was saying... not just lyrics that make no sense...

[PRFRMR20]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 4:51pm

Anyone else see the scalped woman (per above)? lol

[Eastwickian]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 5:01pm

Not until you pointed it out, at which point I laughed out loud in a very quiet room

And I still maintain that the Avenue Q lyric is neither 'cute' nor 'clever'...

[Paul W. Thompson]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 5:20pm

So, when all is said and done here, it seems like we've learned that rock-genre lyrics, as exemplified in the writings of Stephen Schwartz and Tim Rice, frequently don't make a lot of sense in the musical theater.

This is not news, people! lol

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 5:25pm

As I said earlier, the lyrics in Wicked don't sound nice, or at least the ones mentioned. I apologize for keeping the debate alive when I fully know those lyrics don't belong here. :)

~Steven

[DeNada]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 5:44pm

Rice CAN write really rather incisive lyrics at times. "Running Back For More" from Blondel or "Nobody's Side" from Chess are brilliant, for instance. He's just not very good at writing shmoop, and Joseph was written in the 60s when he had long flowing hair and probably rather too much of a good time...

On a Rice note, Eva's final lines in Evita make absolutely no sense at all without thinking about them. When she cries out

"Oh my daughter, oh my son
Understand what I have done"

Moving (with Elaine Paige's melodramatic wail in mind!) but it's a bit out of nowhere. She's got no kids, after all. There's a verse missing from the Lament in the stage show that was on the original album all about why she didn't have children, though, which would make this less of a non-sequitur.

I keep trying to think of good examples, but every time I do I think about the lyrics a bit and suddenly they become crystal clear. I've finally realised how the final verse of Still Hurting from The Last Five Years fits together, for instance (I got so hung up on the ridiculous "speed the time" lyric...).

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 6:00pm

I love Rice's lyric for "A Whole New World," even if no one really uses the term "red-letter." It's possibly my favorite Disney song. And I do enjoy the songs he won Oscars for (in addition to "A Whole New World," there was "Can You Feel the Love Tonight" and "You Must Love Me"). He has written great stuff, but for every gem there is an entire score of ugly lyrics.

~Steven

[jasonf]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 6:03pm

How about this:

Hosanna
Hey zanna
Zanna Zanna Ho
Zanna Hey Zanna
Hosanna!
Hey JC, JC, you're all right with me
Zanna Hey Zanna Ho Superstar

I mean, really - what the heck IS that??

[Paul W. Thompson]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 6:19pm

Both these men are clearly talented--don't get me wrong.

But I have to laugh--I have posted the "Hosanna" example in other contexts before. I know it is meant to be whimsical and fun and a little irreverent, but how did he get up the courage to write that stuff down??? Seriously! :))

[A Fleur De Toi]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 9:01pm

Rice's Nobody's Side has a stinker of a "never waste a hot afternoon" line.

What I want to ask if, not sure if I'm gg a tad off topic here is:

What makes you enjoy a cast recording - score or lyrics? Does a good score suffice, even if it's chockful with stinker lyrics? Or do lyrics matter more?

I have to say, for my own part - I think score matters more to me than lyrics. And I say this because I think Sondheim's lyrics are wonderful but I think his style in terms of score does not suit my tastes at all.

[jasonf]

Posted: 11/26/08 at 9:48pm

It depends on the mood I'm in. Sometimes I want lyrics, sometimes I want melody. The shows that get played most are the ones that have both.