Hamas IS Isis and Isis IS Hamas!- Page 4

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 9/15/14 at 3:22pm

I disagree with you. And not merely because most Muslims proclaim that ISIS is not Islam (just as most Christians proclaim that the Crusades, the Inquisition and Westboro are not Christianity), but because stopping ISIS's aggression and brutality against everyone that comes in its path will not happen without the Muslim world doing at least a big share of the work. Equating ISIS with Islam, or even failing to distance ISIS from Islam, would be counterproductive in appealing to Muslims to fight ISIS.

It's not offensive. It's common sense.

It's not political correctness. It's political intelligence.





Updated On: 9/15/14 at 03:22 PM

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 9/15/14 at 3:51pm

Does every Westerner who gets murdered abroad get the kind of attention that those murdered by ISIS get? It's a tribute to ISIS' media savvy that they know how to celebrate a murder for the highest attention-getting factors. And it's working! Off to war we go! Wheeee!

The amount of narcissistic remembrances of 9/11 that flooded the internet on it's anniversary kind of made me sick. Future historians are not going to look at 9/11 and say, "This is the moment America was wounded." They are going to say "This is the moment America started devouring itself from the inside."

In short: The terrorists have won.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/15/14 at 3:55pm

Ugh. Can we just stop with the moral relativism? It never convinces the other side. It actually makes you lose arguments--when you say "Well, the other side does it too," people just double down on what they believed before.

Lord knows we are all aware of how you feel about "moral relativism", Joey. But the issue in the Middle East is really the hypocrisy of semantics.

When our military kills over 100,000 Arabs and forces 2 million Iraqis to abandon their homes, we dress up the action in fancy and noble language about "defending freedom". And we deny that religion has anything to do with it, even though we, our leaders and our military are overwhelmingly Christian.

When Isis, or Shia or Sunni militia do anything similar, we insist their religion must be the cause.

I certainly agree that the relative death tolls are neither here nor there--except to emphasize how many people Christians kill while ascribing the carnage to other motives.

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 9/15/14 at 5:38pm

And we deny that religion has anything to do with it, even though we, our leaders and our military are overwhelmingly Christian.

What relevance does this represent?

If we were forcing Iraqis to convert following our (misguided) war and operation, this would be pertinent. But it's simply not. The only 'conversion' they faced was going from dictatorship to democracy. Whether that's a change for the better or not is up to you, I suppose.

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 9/15/14 at 5:41pm

Speaking of ignorance and Muslims:

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/15/14 at 6:22pm

Thank you borstalboy. Your two points are two more reasons to be depressed about the end of American culture. At least on BWW people just bumped the old anniversary threads rather than Rocky Horroring it once more from the top. And then Obama's Here We Go Again speech. We all know what they say about being condemned to repeat history. Arming rebels has always worked out so well for the US.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/15/14 at 10:21pm

What relevance does this represent?

The relevance is that we attribute religious motives to ISIS while ignoring our own. And we ignore geopolitical factors influencing Arabs while patting ourselves on the back for bestowing "democracy" on the unfortunate.

(Funny how we haven't chosen to bestow that gift on our good friends, the Saudis.)

My point is never that one killing somehow justifies another or that the two are "equivalent", but that our highly selective use of semantics does nothing to advance our understanding of the situation.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/15/14 at 10:46pm

Word. I saw somebody on Facebook trot out his tear stained memories of somebody who was two degrees of separation away from him who allegedly died in the collapse of one of the towers on the day of the anniversary. Two days later he was advocating nuking the Middle East even though it meant scores of civilian casualties, but, he "reasoned", "would you rather see Americans in body bags?" He probably want the question rhetorically, if he has any idea what that word means. But my answer was and is no and no.

Updated On: 9/15/14 at 10:46 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/16/14 at 7:36am

When Isis, or Shia or Sunni militia do anything similar, we insist their religion must be the cause.

Which of the militia groups are you referring to?

Updated On: 9/16/14 at 07:36 AM

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 9/16/14 at 9:20am

"When Isis, or Shia or Sunni militia do anything similar, we insist their religion must be the cause."

That's because ISIS does use the Islamic religion as a basis for their violence and destruction... Regardless of whether it's an accurate representation of the religion as a whole.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/16/14 at 1:37pm

Of course, it's not an accurate representation of the "religion as a whole."

The NY Times published this helpful infographic today, showing how ISIS works.


NY TIMES: How ISIS Works

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 9/16/14 at 1:52pm

That's because ISIS does use the Islamic religion as a basis for their violence and destruction... Regardless of whether it's an accurate representation of the religion as a whole.

So basically, ignore the facts and spread the propaganda. Better to be ignorant if it makes you feel superior. Have fun with that, Ms. Palin. Just block all of us who use that "gotcha" reasoning. Sieg heil, Christian Warriors!

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 9/16/14 at 2:07pm

Dude. What the hell are you babbling on about?

If you want to start a thread discussing the terrible violence propagated by Christians during the Holy War or by the Catholics during the Inquisition, I would just as easily voice my opposition to their use of religion in justifying human rights atrocities.

This, as far as I can tell, is a thread about ISIS and its connection (or "use") of the Islamic religion. So that's what I am addressing. I share sympathy for no religion, group, or individual hiding behind a religion to promote violence, war, and destruction. It is all awful.

It just so happens that the most prevalent religious holy war in 2014 is, without equivocation, Islamic Jihad. Maybe next year it will be the tyrannical Christians in Zimbabwe. Who knows?

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 9/16/14 at 2:10pm

"This, as far as I can tell, is a thread about ISIS and its connection (or "use") of the Islamic religion. So that's what I am addressing. I share sympathy for no religion, group, or individual hiding behind a religion to promote violence, war, and destruction."

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/16/14 at 2:29pm

has archer converted? i has a confuzzle.

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 9/16/14 at 2:50pm

Yes, Matt. I suppose it is much easier to respond with a silly picture of a (hideous) woman, instead of actually addressing the issue at hand. The Texan in you is starting to show up...

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 9/16/14 at 3:05pm

Papa! The thread has been locked within the narrow boundaries of discussion for the benfit of select participants. You are instructed to use only the words "ISIS" and "Islam" as it pertains to the opinions of those who control the thread. None of those Texas-style fancy-pants cutsey pictures in THIS THREAD!

The Texan in you is starting to show up...

How does that address the issue at hand? Better yet, what does that even mean? What the hell is your babbling all about?

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/16/14 at 3:11pm

listen here, mister matt, i did not come back here to be ordered around by the likes of you and...



well....



i just don't want to talk about it!


*quickly turns and runs from the room sobbing dramatically*

(door slam)

Updated On: 9/16/14 at 03:11 PM

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 9/16/14 at 3:13pm

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/16/14 at 3:17pm

also, mister matt, you have a texan in you...right now? whore.

[madbrian]

Posted: 9/16/14 at 3:18pm

Papa

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 9/16/14 at 3:25pm

Actually, he did live in Texas for a few years in the 90s. But don't be so jealous, papa. He knows all about you.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/16/14 at 3:26pm

he f*cking-a better, mister matt.

and mb... *swoon*

[tazber]

Posted: 9/16/14 at 3:52pm

It smells musky in here...oh HI papa!

[DAME]

Posted: 9/16/14 at 3:59pm

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Updated On: 9/16/14 at 03:59 PM