Hamilton bias- Page 3
Hamilton bias
aaaaaa15
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/31/15
#50Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 12:50pm
The vast media attention wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the word of mouth though. It's a chain of events, sure, but it all started with that extremely positive word of mouth from the Public.
#51Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 1:01pm
KathyNYC2 said: "It's just kind of sad that the show that is created "for the people" that are usually not drawn to Broadway is not easily seen by those people."
I went on Ticketmaster last night and there are shows where more than 400 tickets were available for sale, all by scalpers and all for insane prices. RRT sits 1200, so that's fully a third of the house in the hands of scalpers who are asking $4000+ for good seats. That doesn't make me sad; it makes me furious.
ghostlight2
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/5/04
#52Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 1:09pm
"The vast media attention wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the word of mouth though. It's a chain of events, sure, but it all started with that extremely positive word of mouth from the Public."
All due respect, that's not accurate. There was plenty of press, even before it was at the Public - or have you forgotten that LMM performed the opening number at THE WHITE HOUSE before the show as we know it even existed? You almost make it sound like an unknown dark horse composer was performing his little skit in a tiny little theater, as opposed to a media and theater-savvy Tony winner who knew what he was doing every step of the way.
Sure, the media has exploded since - but the press was always there. Lin saw to it, and good for him.
#53Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 1:17pm
it's a little over 1300 seats, but I saw this recently and it upset me as well. the thing is, I know those scalpers will sell probably 90% of those tickets so the incentive will not leave.
as for word of mouth, I'm sure the rave reviews and award-winning and commercially successful (it was certified gold by the RIAA) helped the show become well-known and beloved all around the world. read the comments on any Facebook article about the show; it's filled with people from every corner talking about how much they love the show. Hamilton is beyond just us now. It belongs to the world.
"Contentment, it seems, simply happens. It appears accompanied by no bravos and no tears."
aaaaaa15
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/31/15
#54Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 1:22pm
ghostlight2 said: ""The vast media attention wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the word of mouth though. It's a chain of events, sure, but it all started with that extremely positive word of mouth from the Public."
All due respect, that's not accurate. There was plenty of press, even before it was at the Public - or have you forgotten that LMM performed the opening number at THE WHITE HOUSE before the show as we know it even existed? You almost make it sound like an unknown dark horse composer was performing his little skit in a tiny little theater, as opposed to a media and theater-savvy Tony winner who knew what he was doing every step of the way.
Sure, the media has exploded since - but the press was always there. Lin saw to it, and good for him."
Sure, there was media attention from the beginning as there is for quite a few shows. And yes Lin made a great decision to perform the Hamilton number at the White House instead of a number from In the Heights like they asked him to. Nevertheless, the reason why the media is even more obsessed with Hamilton than it was this time last year is because so many people love it. There are shows that make a lot of effort with marketing and don't get anywhere near to the level that Hamilton has. The increase in media attention from the run at the Public to now has been extremely enhanced because these online media outlets know that people will click on articles about the show because they love the music or because they follow the cast on Twitter or whatever other reason.
I would say the big thing that brought Hamilton into the public consciousness (apart from the Grammys) was the cast recording. There was a marked difference in the attention the show got before and after that release. Beforehand it seemed to be mainly people that at least had some knowledge of theatre, afterwards there were people who had never listened to a musical before talking avidly about this show and I think that is because the quality of the music speaks for itself. These teenagers that are obsessed with the show don't read the New York Times, they hear from their friends about what they're listening to/watching.
I'm not saying that the marketing for Hamilton hasn't helped its success, but I don't think it was THAT important at the beginning of its run at the Public. I've followed Lin on Twitter since 2013 and despite his tweets I only knew the very basics of what it was and didn't feel like I was particularly interested. It was only after reading these boards and seeing what audience members of the show - not the media - were saying that I felt like I needed to see it.
Basically, it's a combination of many things but I think you could use an incredibly hefty budget on marketing but if your show isn't good it wont be successful in the long run.
aaaaaa15
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/31/15
#55Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 1:29pm
Also, lets not forget that many of these articles in the media focus ON the word of mouth and positive reviews of Hamilton. They talk about its celebrity fans, how high it reached on the Billboard chart, its record breaking Tony nominations, which all stem from it being a positively received show.
Broadway Forever2
Leading Actor Joined: 3/7/16
#56Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 1:42pm
Lin preformed the opening number in 2009. 6 years before the show began. It's not like he was some extremely well known name or anything. It was good foresight of him, yes, but I highly doubt he was like, let me preform this at white house so when I finally finish it 6 years from now it will get more media attention. It was supposed to be a mixtape initially! I loved in the heights so I did see the video and thought it was funny but I didn't really get how he was going to write a whole album on it. If the show wasn't good and so loved by the public it wouldn't have mattered and him preforming at the white house would have just been a random trivia fact that few people remembered. The media attention was due to the extremely positive response and reviews to the musical at the Public. I remember even when it was in the workshop stages it was getting very positive buzz. That in addition to the unusual musical style to tell a story with non traditional casting was the reason for a lot of the media attention.
Yes I'm not saying the show didn't have a good maerketing campaign because they do and Lin is media savvy but the reason for a lot of the media attention is just because it's so popular. Also again the tickets are expensive now but once the original cast leaves and the show goes on tour it will be more affordable and that's when people will see it.
Updated On: 5/5/16 at 01:42 PM
ghostlight2
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/5/04
#57Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 1:49pm
Well ok, then, aaaaaaa15. I'll simply agree to disagree with you. We're going in circles here. Of course success will lead to more press, and as to your assertion that the "media focus [is] ON the word of mouth and positive reviews of Hamilton", well, of course it is. At this point, there really isn't much more to talk about, is there?
I just noticed this, though:
"I also wonder if one of the reasons Lin held off until this year was to allow for Fun Home to have that moment, as I remember Jeanine Tesori tweeted Lin thanking him after Fun Home announced recoupment, which is unlikely to have happened without the Tony win."
Are you kidding me? LMM is generous, but again, he isn't a fool. Hamilton's entry on Broadway had nothing to do with LMM "allowing" Fun Home its moment.
This talk reminded me of Lin's generosity. I remember him getting this young fan from New Orleans on a Broadway stage years ago during In the Heights. Really very sweet.
Dreams come true.
ETA:
"Lin preformed [sic] the opening number in 2009. 6 years before the show began. It's not like he was some extremely well known name or anything. It was good foresight of him, yes, but I highly doubt he was like, let me preform [sic] this at white house so when I finally finish it 6 years from now it will get more media attention. It was supposed to be a mixtape initially! If the show wasn't good and so loved by the public it wouldn't have mattered and him preforming [sic] at the white house would have just been a random trivia fact that few people remembered."
Actually, I think that's exactly what he did - otherwise, why NOT perform something from ITH? Why not use the White House as a springboard for whatever his new project was? As for his fame? Well, he surely was not as well-known as he is now, but he was very far from unknown.
#58Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 1:51pm
I was also a big fan of Lin's from Heights and even I thought the idea of Hamilton was bat**** crazy. I saw the performance at the White House and thought it was kind of cute but not much more. It was around the time he was on that flop NBC show that I was wondering about the fate of the Mixtape as it had been known, figuring he must have given up on such a ridiculous idea (at the time I hadn't been keeping too close a watch on it so I didn't know that it had already had its first act reading and would soon have a workshop). But I'm so happy he kept up with that crazy idea. We need more theater artists like him writing new and daring work.
"Contentment, it seems, simply happens. It appears accompanied by no bravos and no tears."
aaaaaa15
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/31/15
#59Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 1:54pm
ghostlight2 said: " I just noticed this, though:
"I also wonder if one of the reasons Lin held off until this year was to allow for Fun Home to have that moment, as I remember Jeanine Tesori tweeted Lin thanking him after Fun Home announced recoupment, which is unlikely to have happened without the Tony win."
Are you kidding me? LMM is generous, but again, he isn't a fool. Hamilton's entry on Broadway had nothing to do with LMM "allowing" Fun Home its moment. "
I specifically said that it obviously wasn't the only reason, but I do remember the producers were pressuring him to take it to Broadway that season so clearly they thought it would be a better idea. And that tweet makes a lot of sense with what I'm saying. He's a huge fan of Tesori (even shouting her out on his Grammys speech) and Fun Home. I'm just saying it could have made his decision easier. He obviously wouldn't have made that decision if he thought it would negatively effect Hamilton's chances though.
#60Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 1:57pm
that tweet of Tesori's is kind of implying that, to be honest. if Hamilton had come in last year it would have crushed Fun Home I think. that may not have been the main reason to wait but Jeanine seems to be thanking him for it either way.
"Contentment, it seems, simply happens. It appears accompanied by no bravos and no tears."
Broadway Forever2
Leading Actor Joined: 3/7/16
#61Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 2:07pm
Eh, I don't know fore sure if Fun home had to do with Lin waiting. He did make quite a few changes from off Broadway to Broadway and them waiting allowed it to become an even bigger phenomenon than it was at the time because like you said the show gained a huge following after the cast recording came out. I think It would have been more of a competition I think if Fun Home and Hamilton at the time had to face off for best musical.
However, I do know that there was a lot of pressure to move quickly and even Riedel was claiming that they were definitely going to move to Broadway quickly. That tweet does make it seem like Tesori is at least grateful he waited off. If Fun Home didn't win best musical I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have recouped.
Updated On: 5/5/16 at 02:07 PM
aaaaaa15
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/31/15
#62Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 2:13pm
It was just speculation really, it was my first thought when I first saw the tweet. Either way, I'm sure he thought of it as a positive part of waiting which is really all I was trying to claim. Just thought it was interesting!
#63Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 2:17pm
It wasn't THAT many changes really. I think there's a thread on what changes occurred. One Last Time being rewritten and A Part of Her Lives On deleted come to mind as big ones. Your Obedient Servant had completely different lyrics for most of the song. I also think Right Hand Man was different although I may be thinking of the workshop version.
"Contentment, it seems, simply happens. It appears accompanied by no bravos and no tears."
#64Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 2:29pm
Re: my comment on built in draws. Yes, WICKED had the Wizard of Oz connection.. The book was also popular. As mentioned here the Hamilton buzz started before it even opened at the Public. I really wasn't sweeping Hamilton into the angle thing. Word of mouth definetly plays a major part in its success. I meant that it has gotten so big that it has been linked to things that we are now seeing on the news and entertainment shows. As mentioned, the currency and just today on Hollywood live they focused on SJP's outfit for the Met Ball that was imspired by one of Lin's costumes in the show. It has also inspired a beer and then that CPT time thing with Clinton and the Mayor. Granted, those of us who keep up with theatre see it more. I am not putting the show down, just responding with my opinion. I have not seen the show but hope to. Not crazy about the entire score but I am hoping that will change when I see it. Some shows are like that. But some of this fatigue could also be mixed with frustration that a lot of people can't get a ticket or just can't afford one to see the show. JMO
Just give the world Love.
Updated On: 5/5/16 at 02:29 PM
aaaaaa15
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/31/15
#65Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 2:31pm
I agree with you uncageg, I was just curious as to whether you thought it had that built in draw or not but I think you're right that it didn't.
ChiTheaterFan
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/9/15
#66Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 2:33pm
Not 100% sure what he means by this, but maybe that journalists are covering it so much that people are getting sick of it?
https://twitter.com/chrisjonestrib/status/728276136975859713
aaaaaa15
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/31/15
#67Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 2:39pm
Or maybe just that its getting far more media attention than its counterparts i.e Hamilton is getting much more media attention than other Broadway shows and Trump is getting much more media attention than the other presidential candidates.
Broadway Forever2
Leading Actor Joined: 3/7/16
#68Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 2:42pm
ChiTheaterFan said: "Not 100% sure what he means by this, but maybe that journalists are covering it so much that people are getting sick of it?
https://twitter.com/chrisjonestrib/status/728276136975859713
"
I mean the guy who tweeted that literally just wrote an article about how to get tickets to hamilton an hour ago. I think he just means the media attention it gets compared to counterparts.
Broadway Forever2
Leading Actor Joined: 3/7/16
#69Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 2:42pm
ChiTheaterFan said: "Not 100% sure what he means by this, but maybe that journalists are covering it so much that people are getting sick of it?
https://twitter.com/chrisjonestrib/status/728276136975859713
"
I mean the guy who tweeted that literally just wrote an article about how to get tickets to hamilton an hour ago. I think he just means the media attention it gets compared to counterparts.
ChiTheaterFan
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/9/15
#70Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 2:42pm
Maybe. I have such a visceral reaction to Trump I assume any sort of comparison has a negative connotation.
Broadway Forever2
Leading Actor Joined: 3/7/16
#71Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 2:48pm
A lot of the "backlash" I've seen with Hamilton is not really the media attention, because really if you don't follow musical theatre I doubt you'll notice much of the media attention concerning it and it's easy to ignore, but the price of the tickets. There definitely is a small backlash brewing concerning how expensive the tickets are.
aaaaaa15
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/31/15
#72Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 2:58pm
Yes and I can understand that. Even I felt a bit of resentment when I read that article about the potential $995 tickets. Unfortunately though, there is no way for this issue to be solved without letting the scalpers earn more from the show than those actually involved in the show.
If people want these prices to go down they need to stop paying them.
#73Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 3:27pm
But the scalpers have all the tickets. Unless you're very lucky and get a cancellation or lotto ticket, you won't see the show unless you hand over a lot of money to them.
Can anyone verify this for me? I read an article about getting tickets, and it mentioned that the last block of tickets went entirely to American Express cardholders through pre-sale. That would mean that not one single ticket was released to the general public - it was sold out before the tickets even went on general sale. Did anybody here buy a ticket not using AmEx when the last block went on sale?
aaaaaa15
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/31/15
#74Hamilton bias
Posted: 5/5/16 at 3:30pm
sarahb22 said: "But the scalpers have all the tickets. Unless you're very lucky and get a cancellation or lotto ticket, you won't see the show unless you hand over a lot of money to them.
Can anyone verify this for me? I read an article about getting tickets, and it mentioned that the last block of tickets went entirely to American Express cardholders through pre-sale. That would mean that not one single ticket was released to the general public - it was sold out before the tickets even went on general sale. Did anybody here buy a ticket not using AmEx when the last block went on sale?"
No that isn't true. There were less tickets available than previous booking periods but there were definitely people on these boards that ended up being able to buy tickets outside of the pre-sale. I don't think pre-sales are ever allocated all of the tickets.
It's also worth just randomly checking Ticketmaster sometimes. A show that was sold out all of a sudden came up with 7 tickets, one of which I bought. No idea why that happened but it might happen again.
