Associated Press: Gay voters angry at Democrats could sway election — Page 3

I can see how a reasonable person might surmise Obama has a deep-seated problem with gay people. The way he has handled every issue that has come up has been terrible. Even his damage control attempts blow. Having the gay Episcopal might have seemed like it was "fair" but getting rid of the ex-gay altogether would have been smarter. Then burying the Episcopal before the ceremony seemed really dunderheaded.

I can think of absolutely no logical reason the man could tell presumed young gay viewers on the other side of the camera he assured "it gets better" on the very week his administration was working otherwise. Hell, I might have even respected him a bit more if he said, "Unless you're in the military."

If progressives could hold Bush in contempt for squandering the good will of the world after 9/11, the Obama can certainly at least be told he has not done right by a community he courted.

His line about how DADT will be repealed on his "watch" reminded me of nothing so much as Whoopi Goldberg's HBO special, "Fontaine: Why Am I Straight?" in which her chemically enhanced alter ego did an impression of Reagan bending over union members and the citizens of the US and entering them from behind as he assured them he was their friends and would take care of them.

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I can see how people screwed by the military would be angry- to be bounced out of the service because of who you sleep with is awful- to have to hide your true orientation to serve, awful. But that's the law of the land right now. If you are gay, DO NOT enlist in the military. And if you insist on serving, you need to completely submerge yourself in the closet.

DADT was Clinton's "Compromise" with right wingers in 1993. Except it wasn't a compromise. It made it worse. It codified into law what up till then was military policy. Clinton hasn't been inaugurated yet when he said he was going issue an executive order allowing gays to serve openly in the military. I still don't know why he did that. If he had done it, there would have been a ****storm, but the deed would be done. Of course, back then we thought you could reason with Republicans. He was afraid he'd get no cooperation with the Republicans if he so openly flaunted his power. So he "compromised" and suddenly a problem that could be solved by an executive order became the law of the land. A horrible law, but the law.

Now we are close- so close- to repealing it. The President, house and senate all want it gone. But because of the rules of the senate, the minority can overrule the majority and they have.

But why not let the Court strike it down- it is indeed an unconstitutional law (I think so anyway). Well, they might,(eventually) but a federal law is a federal law up to the point it's struck down. If the Department of Justice starts picking and choosing which rulings to challenge, the Legislative branch is all but out of business. A circuit court ruling on a federal law MUST be challenged. Otherwise, some judge in Alabama could strike down health care reform and a Republican president can point to the "Obama Precedent" and not challenge it.

Anyway that's neither here nor there to someone bitter they are getting booted out of the service. But there is logic to his path.

Updated On: 10/25/10 at 06:38 PM

I think we need an Obama Musical Break, right about now.

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What good does it do to enlist in the Military if you are gay? When discussing this very issue with a poor, white, high school drop out young gay boy I told him if he really wants to go work in a homophobic environment that give him good training, low pay and a chance for advancement only if he stays deeply closeted, go work at WalMart and gun for their management program.

I am in agreement the law should be changed. I also agree the law against smoking pot should be changed. So I tell my Nephew to not smoke pot because you can get arrested. And don't smoke dick, private, you will get kicked out. And It's been that way for nearly 20 years.

Awful, unfair but the hard truth.

What good does it do to enlist in the Military if you are gay?

That's a false premise. The point is they usually don't KNOW they're gay when they enlist.

Many young people from backgrounds or environments that are repressed or homophobic do not self-identify as gay until they are in their mid- or late-twenties.

Most young people who enlist in the military come from these backgrounds. They deny their sexual identities until well into their twenties and sometimes their thirties. Sometimes they marry, sometimes they have children. Sometimes they use the discipline the military fosters to push down their emotional or erotic desires. Sometimes the stress of this repression has negative consequences on their physical emotional health.

Sometimes these people are otherwise exemplary members of the military.

So the "poor, white, high school drop out young gay boy" you advised has an advantage over most of the other men and women caught in the snares of DADT: Your young friend already knows that he is gay. I hope you can see that such clarity is unusual.

At any rate, he hasn't enlisted yet, so your bringing him up merely obfuscates the larger point.

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Updated On: 10/26/10 at 11:42 PM

"What good does it do to enlist in the Military if you are gay?"

1. Access to a theatre in which to demonstrate to kith and kin back home and to society at large an immense love of country
2. Gets Jimmy Dean out of PooDunk, USA.
3. Gain a passport to exotic locales in a world heretofore unseen
4. Collect a steady paycheck, health insurance and survivors benefits for the folks back home
5. Fulfillment of that sense of adventure possessed by most young men in their late teens to mid-twenties. For some, the alternative is to turn tricks in the big city.
6. A chance to lead for once in his life, if he's lucky & plays the game well.

Many friends of mine are former Military servicemen who enlisted before graduating high school. Most admit privately that they got their first shot of putang either offbase just before or during their first overseas tour. I don't believe that it's always about denial of sexual identity for those young men as much as it's about establishing one in the first place.

I have no evidence empirical, anecdotal or otherwise to support my assertion, but I find that the 3-letter guy from high school who bags half the cheer-leading squad rarely enlists because he's accustomed to being king of the hill. Need drives many young men to enlist including the need to be a hero (and men) in the eyes of others. He couldn't compete with Mr. 3-letter in H.S. for the attention of the chicks but let him come back home a strapping figure in a uniform with a few war stories and by golly he's gettin' laid aplenty. I've been completely excoriated in other fora for suggesting that society as we know it is doomed when we start socializing young boys like girls. We men seem to be hardwired with a hero gene, a need to save the day on occasion.

Joe -- I honestly don't think your question's disingenuous. Many men including this one have questioned why a woman would enlist in the Military along the same lines. The thought-bubble that always emerges is "because she's entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". It's not up to me to define those parameters for the next adult dude or dudette.

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Updated On: 10/26/10 at 01:27 AM

I was raised on a military base and it seemed to me that there were more gay women than gay men. I once got into a conversation with a man I worked with who graduated from The Citadel- along with his 7 brothers. His argument was that gay men brought in AIDS. I reminded him that many straight men were more promiscuous-especially when you would see newstories of Asian women who would sell their teenage daughters to the servicemen. A lot of the boys from my high school enlisted in the military because it was their only choice. They either couldn't afford college or couldn't get into it. (These are just observations and not meant to be judgemental.)

In other news....

"WASHINGTON — Less than halfway through his first term, President Barack Obama has appointed more openly gay officials than any other president in history."


Obama's Gay Appointees Smash Record

And I won't try to speak for gay Americans who aren't part of the 150 Obama appointees, but my reaction is big whoop. I hope the partners of these appointees have their own insurance plans.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101026/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_gay_appointees

"The pace of appointments has helped to ease broader disappointment among gay rights groups that Obama has not acted more quickly on other fronts, such as ending the "don't ask, don't tell" policy that bans gays from serving openly in the military."

Oh, okay.

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"Well...I don't know...that seems to be a little bit of hyperbole to me. I mean didn't Clinton do MORE damage by having DADT and DOMA put into law under his watch?"

Obama's damage is at least as bad, I'd say, as he is passing himself off to a lot of people as being ever-so-gay-friendly while perpetuating (and legally defending in court) the very policies that Clinton put in place and that Obama claimed a willingness to have overturned. Obama's pretended opposition to DOMA is hot air: he claims to not support the law, but his opposition to marriage equality is a matter of public record.

Basically, gay folks can be his employees. But he's not going to think of them as being his equals.

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Updated On: 10/26/10 at 11:11 AM

I don't think Obama's issue is that he hates gay people. I think his issue is that he's a piss poor leader.