So a couple of points:
Regarding the contradiction of the title vs post, yes apologies that was an error on my part.
Regarding my nationality and 'what gives me the right'. I will revisit this but mention this is something I already have discussed during the primary thread - which on a side note was quite a frustrating time to be here and face the wrath of the very anti-Bernie bias on this forum (the fact that in this thread I have literally been wished to die and described as worse than Trump is just tantamount to how emotionally involved some people here are with Hillary Clinton - I think there is some real serious learning I will get to in a second). Anyway, the US is the most powerful country in the world and Australians are involved in this outcome in so many ways - look at even the ASX (share market) reaction - now and in the past (the GFC is called the GFC for a reason), look at foreign policy decisions, look at terrorism risks. I actually could care less 1. if it didn't affect me in any way, and 2. If I didn't have so much respect for the USA as a country (but I do, and I consider the USA to literally be the world leader in all of my vocations/interests).
I agree with kdogg36 and others that, although my post was perhaps needlessly provocative, some of the reaction here has been incredibly intense, even crazy. I understand that this election outcome is pretty much the worst that most here could imagine. I understand that for me then to turn around and 'blame' people for it is quite uncomfortable when in your minds, all you were doing was what you thought would lead to the best outcome.
But let us not now dismiss the topic and hand (as many have done) and assume that there wasn't an alternative, that there wasn't a way out - because then we have learned nothing. During the primary, all the polling evidence suggested that Bernie Sanders did indeed have a better chance of winning against Trump than Hillary - the polling data showed us Hillary could actually lose to Trump. Sure, perhaps it's a bit hard to trust polling data so far out but we also have several good theoretical/causal reasons why Bernie would have won:
1. The fact that he is perceived as more trustworthy than both Trump and Hillary - "According to a recent YouGov poll, “Bernie Sanders is the most widely trusted presidential candidate of either party.” - and why is that? For a variety reasons, could it be in part because Hillary refused to publicly release the speeches she gave to Wall Street? Of course when they are leaked and it says things like she has a 'public' and 'private' stance it does not help things. Could it be because she has flip flopped on so many issues (e.g., gay marriage; iraq war; trade agreements; bankruptcy bill). Could it be that she (and the DNC) were accused of rigging the primary process, which then turned out to be TRUE when wikileaks showed that the DNC were trying to favour Hillary (e.g., by thinking about outing Bernie as an atheist) or when wikileaks showed that Hillary had early access to a primary debate question (a question that could have helped Bernie Sanders better connect with one of his struggling demographics, the black voters).
2. Bernie Sanders was not involved in any criminal scandals that really did hurt Hillary's chances through those unfortunate and ill-timed FBI announcements throughout the election, plus the idea itself as unfortunate as it is - that just being involved in a criminal scandal even if innocent is bad for public image
3. Bernie Sanders fit exactly the 'outsider' image that Donald Trump was able to ride the wave on. They were both anti-establishment candidates who somewhat hijacked the Republican/Democratic parties.
Now, you can say something as ridiculous that "Bernie couldn't get in because he was a Jew" - but I find this a little stupid. If Obama can be elected as a black man, I think Bernie could get in as a Jew. EVEN if this demographic characteristic did hurt him, Hillary was equally (if not more) disadvantaged because she was a woman. I don't think it makes much sense to argue or choose candidates solely based on these demographics.
Personally, I have felt (and the reaction to this thread does not change my mind) that some posters here had a real emotional connection with Hillary Clinton - but if we try to remove this emotion and stick with the facts, it was clear that Bernie was the better choice. People, for some reason, take this so personally - and indeed throughout the primary process on this forum it seemed like people took objective facts about Hillary Clinton as personal attacks. Even now, it is like some people just can't accept the potential uncomfortable reality (not certain, but as discussed above there is good evidence) that just maybe, just maybe voting for a candidate that is widely perceived as untrustworthy (again, nothing personal towards Hillary - this is just the objective facts based on polling data) and involved in criminal scandals (again, nothing personal or assuming guilt here - just the mere fact that it is going on) is not a good idea when it comes to electability in the general election.
I am slightly upset that the information was all there at the time, yet many people would not (and still won't) accept it. We all have to live with the consequences now (of course, some more than others - but let's not pretend that the USA is, pun not intended, behind a wall and operating independently from the rest of the world, or inaccessible to the rest of the world).
Perhaps the choice may have been mistaken, the choosing was not.
Give me claws and a hunch, just away from this bunch.
Updated On: 11/9/16 at 02:59 PM
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