Boy Scouts of America lifts ban on gay youths

[best12bars]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 6:11pm

Finally!

They voted today, and 61% were in favor of removing this (archaic) ban. A step in the right direction.


CNN Link

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 6:34pm

Better late than never.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 6:37pm

I fully expect the red state bigots to start protesting by tomorrow afternoon.

[best12bars]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 6:44pm

I have two friends (a husband and wife) who have been heavy into scouting, and they are also pro equal rights. They voted for this. And they are cheering very loudly now about the "next step," which is to lift the ban on gay scout leaders (adults).

One step at a time, but this is definitely progress.

I know how important it is at that stage in life to feel equal. I was a cub scout myself, but quit, not long after that, because I just didn't fit in. It didn't scar me for life or anything (remotely), but imagine what it might have been like if I had discovered a group that accepted and encouraged me with leaders who I could look up to and identify with as "normal" and "part of the group."

It's on its way. Scouting may still be silly or totally unnecessary for some, but at least we can be invited to the party now, even if we decide on our own not to go.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 6:45pm

A baby step, maybe, but those baby steps are beginning to add up.

[best12bars]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 6:46pm

Definitely.

It's all movement in the right direction.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 6:59pm

Gay Kid Excited To Be Made Fun Of For Second Thing

[romantico]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 7:45pm

The Bigots react

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 8:01pm

WELL, THERE GOES 4 PEOPLE WHO CAN GO ROYALLY F*CK THEMSELVES.

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 8:19pm

They were all telling people who supported allowing gay boys into the Scouts that they should form their own organization. Now the shoe is on the other foot. I invite all of those who do not want gay boys in the Scouts....to form their own organization. Have fun getting corporate sponsorship! Maybe Chick-Fil-A can help you out.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 10:04pm

But wait.

What happens to that brave 16- or 17-year-old gay Scout on his 18th birthday?

He is kicked out of the Scouts and made to feel like a disgusting, horrible person, unfit to be a Scout?

This is a recipe for suicide.

[Brian07663NJ]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 8:00am

Yes PalJoey. Unfortunately that is the case. You can be an "out Scout" and then once you become 18 - since they know you are gay - you are not welcome to be there any more.

I am an Eagle Scout. I was a leader through my mid-20s. I wasn't out at the time. I loved being available as a single guy to drive the younger guys to weekend camping trips when I saw that their own parents weren't available for them. I had the time, disposable income, truck, experience...but ultimately knew I had to leave even before this was a hot button issue. I was genuinely fearful of being questioned what my ulterior motivations were for participating without a son in the program. For the sake of my reputation I walked away.

It was also becoming obvious that things were going this way because the Parent Scout Manual added an entire section on sexual abuse. Accusation can be as damaging as being found guilty. I had no interest in anything but volunteering my time and experience.

[tazber]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 8:03am

I am really conflicted on this. By not letting gay adults participate it seems to be sending some kind of "gay adults are all pedophiles" message. Or at least some kind of "gay adults are bad" message.

That could just be how I'm perceiving it, but it seems entirely misdirected and counter productive.

This feels like a step back, not a step forward.

[Addison D.]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 8:47am

I can't agree that this is a backwards step, or anything like it.

Anything that moves us in the direction of providing children with same-sex attraction the ability to navigate their youth with an increased sense of normalcy and/or belonging is a huge, positive step in helping them to develop the reserves of self-respect and inner strength that they need to become healthy, whole adults.

It is disappointing that the BSA stopped short of allowing participation by Gay adults, but this is a pretty hot-button issue, and it is hardly surprising that they punted.

Rather than cause a tidal-wave of suicides among Eagle Scouts--a notoriously resilient crowd--I expect it will cause a tidal wave of law-suits by gay Eagle Scouts, demanding the BSA explain in court how the clock striking midnight on their 18th birthday transformed them from the most valuable, highly-respected and successful members of the organization into Pariahs.

By the time these lawsuits occur, the BSA community will--one hopes--have discovered that having gayz in the family is nothing to be feared, and they will abolish this arbitrary and utterly illogical cut-off.

[Roscoe]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 8:55am

It's a very strange half-measure, isn't it. They're still openly discriminating against gays, while openly not discriminating against gays. They're still leaving the door open to having corporate sponsors bail on them for not being inclusive of gays, while leaving the door open to having idiots bail on them for being too inclusive of gays.

Bottom line -- as long as they openly discriminate against gays, they're still the Bigot Scouts of America.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 8:58am

I see where people who are disappointed are coming from but I think the progress needs to be celebrated. Allowing openly gay scout leaders is the next logical step. Especially if they get a good reaction from this.
Truth Wins Out was not impressed.
"Today’s Boy Scout’s decision was insulting and pandered to ignorance and bigotry at the expense of gay people and their families. Allowing gay scouts but not adult scout leaders was a compromise – only in the sense that BSA compromised its integrity and decency. Let’s be clear — this was not a step forward, but a step backward, because it reinforced the most vile stereotypes and misconceptions deliberately peddled by anti-gay activists."
Statement from Truth Wins Out

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 9:03am

"That could just be how I'm perceiving it, but it seems entirely misdirected and counter productive.

This feels like a step back, not a step forward."

I'm with Taz. This is totally a step backward. What message does this send? After being indoctrinated, gay kids may become straight? That after 18, you can no longer be involved in a group you've spent your whole life in?

[Addison D.]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 9:17am

It tells an 8-year old baby gay--who is probably not in a position to discuss his inchoate and confusing feelings of same-sex attraction--that if he wants to join the Webelos there is NOTHING about "those feelings" that make him 'less than' any body else.

It tells that kid that there are other kids with the same feelings--there must be, or the BSA wouldn't have a policy prohibiting discrimination against them.

It tells little straight kids that--despite what their parents may say--it is wrong to pick on little gay boys.

It provides for increased possibilities that little gay and straight boys can become--and stay--friends as the gay ones discover and navigate the path to their sexual identities.

All of which will help create precisely the kind of healthy, fully-integrated 18-year old Queer who won't put up with the BS of the "Adult" cut-off.

Updated On: 5/24/13 at 09:17 AM

[Roscoe]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 9:23am

It'll also depend on exactly what the Bigot Scouts actually say about homosexuality in their literature and programs, especially to those gay Scouts.

This half-acceptance only raises more ugly questions, as half measures tend to do. They'd have done better to rip the band-aid off all the way.

[Addison D.]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 9:30am

That's true, Roscoe. But even the most cursory statement that the organization does not discriminate based on sexual orientation is a powerful message to a deeply closeted little kid struggling with the idea that he is terribly--and uniquely--different from everybody else in the world.

I know it's a very different world than the one in which I grew up a thousand years ago--sneaking Gordon Merrick novels inside of magazines at the mall bookstore and reading a few pages with my heart pounding in my ears--but I still believe that there are scared, isolated, confused little kids out there and I can't be sorry that they are being told that it's OK for them to join the Scouts.

[Roscoe]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 9:40am

"But even the most cursory statement that the organization does not discriminate based on sexual orientation is a powerful message to a deeply closeted little kid struggling with the idea that he is terribly--and uniquely--different from everybody else in the world."

Indeed, that is a powerful message. Unfortunately, that message is a lie.

The Boy Scouts do, in fact, openly discriminate against gays. There are no two ways about it.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 9:53am

but I still believe that there are scared, isolated, confused little kids out there and I can't be sorry that they are being told that it's OK for them to join the Scouts.

But Addison, Addison, Addison--what happens to those "scared, isolated, confused little kids" the day they turn 18?

And what about the 17-year-old "scared, isolated, confused little kid"? What good news is there in this for him? "You've got seven months--and then you're scum."

This is not an positive message. This is a stupid move that does more harm than it does good, more akin to the passing of Don't Ask Don't Tell than the passive of a civil-rights bill.

The truly evil message here is the one it sends to straight Scouts: Any Scout who comes out of the closet--or indeed any Scout you think may be gay--will grow up to be a predator.

Updated On: 5/24/13 at 09:53 AM

[JbaraFan1]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 10:41am

I really hope this is more a cup half full move than the opposite. Change attitudes while kids are growing up. Parents of little straight boys realizing their sons are not going to catch gay cooties from camping out with little gay boys. It has even occurred to me that brothers, gay and straight, can enjoy scouting together and being themselves. Then hopefully this will lead to the realization that the sexual orientation of an adult has nothing to do with that adult's ability to be a mentor to boys. I hope this is the first step toward more positive changes in the future.

[John Adams]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 11:32am

I can see the positive "possibilities" for this change, but how might they conflict with the "realities"? Especially since Scouting places such a high value on teaching 'Character Development'.

The concept of Character Development is subjective and open to the moral guidelines of any troupe's sponsoring organization (i.e. school, church, etc.)

How does the Scouting organization plan to normalize the information shared and disseminated between ALL troupes regarding the "morality of homosexual behavior"?

How could they possibly reconcile any kind of "positive" message with their policy that once deemed an adult, a person is no longer deemed "moral" enough to participate?

Also, we're all focused on male homosexuals, but does this new policy also extend to the Girl Scouts organization? Updated On: 5/24/13 at 11:32 AM

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 11:40am

'But Addison, Addison, Addison--what happens to those "scared, isolated, confused little kids" the day they turn 18?'

They will have already grown up in an organization that no longer equates 'morally straight' with 'heterosexuality'...at least for themselves, if not their leaders. I don't disagree that this is a half measure...but calling it a step backwards is a little strange.

I really am having a hard time seeing the logical jump it takes to get from the lift of the ban on gay scouts to a rash of 18 year old suicidal men leaping from a clocktower clutching their Pinewood Derby cars in one hand and their neckerchiefs in the other.