Can We Put People Back in the Closet?- Page 3

[RobbO]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 11:13am

unfortunately, robbie, lots of people care and the anti-gay groups who are not as enlightened will latch on to this statement.

so this kind of coming out does not help the community, so i say go back in the closet until you've sorted things out.

[shameless]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 11:15am

I disagree. I like threads like this, because it helps me to better understand people, in general.

Updated On: 12/7/05 at 11:15 AM

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 11:21am

"I believe that there are a number of lesbians who do feel that for them, being in a gay relationship a choice, whether for political or feminist reasons, or because they are basically bisexual and are "choosing" to act on their gay impulses. It's a lot different for gay men, I think."

*boggles*

[DG]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 11:23am

"Do I believe that for some people, being gay in a choice? Yes. And I don't have a problem with that. Look at it this way: sexual/emotional attraction is innate...but choosing to live openly and to align yourself with an established minority is a choice...it may not feel like a choice for some of us, but it really is. And it's an empowering choice that should be respected."

Robbie - that was perfect.

[RobbO]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 11:27am

perhaps, but not what she meant so it's just smoke and mirrors.

[robbiej]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 11:52am

I'm actually surprised you are surprised, rath. It's something I've heard more than once in queer theory classes/workshops etc (stop judging me you bitches! so I'm a gay nerd!)

I personally don't mind threads like this or even opinions like this because it allows us to have a conversation about sexuality deeper than normal. There will always be an exception (is that the right one?) to the rule...no one's got the right answer.

kjk hit it right on the head with the analogy to people of different races getting married. A black man marrying a white woman is a choice...one that was at one point in time illegal in this country. That changed. And I believe that in this country, change is currently underway. It's a long hard battle, but as Tony Kushner put it, 'The world only spins forward.' The fight we need to have is not with each other over how you're gay. It's with those who think that no matter what, we are evil. Don't kid yourselves...if a gay gene is found, the Right is not all of a sudden going to embrace us. They'll just push for medical research that will eradicate us.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 11:54am

I've known quite a few lesbians in my day (shut up), and I must say, not one has ever had that outlook on their sexuality.

[JailyardGuy]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 11:56am

And I've known quite a few who have.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 11:57am

Thanks for your support there, JG.

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 12:03pm

Actually, I have met quite a few women who have made 'the choice' to be involved in a lesbian relationship, and when that was over went back to dating men. I have no problem with that at all.

The thing is none of them came out or made a big deal about it. They were just open to the possibility of a same-sex relationship. Interestingly (sp) I've never met men who've done that.

I do think that it's unfortunate, that finally a name in sports decides to come out, and they say it was a choice. If there were other openly gay professional athletes out there, it wouldn't bother me as much, I guess.

[RobbO]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 12:05pm

rath, is that quote above from swoopes?

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 12:07pm

I don't have time to answer that now. I'm busy deciding whether I'd like to be straight for a while.

[RobbO]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 12:07pm

dreamer, that was more what i was referring to. it's like how gays were (are?) depicted in movies and tv shows years ago. we were either buffons, the butt of jokes or we had to suffer for our "sins" and were killed, maimed, or died at the end to be punished for our "wicked ways."

next we became evil murderers, serial killers, psychos, etc. and yes, while i have dated all of the above (you know who you are), it is hurtful to the community as a whole if that is the only image depicted.

Updated On: 12/7/05 at 12:07 PM

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 12:08pm

me too Rath. Whatcha doing tonight? *wink*

[robbiej]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 12:12pm

I think the point is for every person's personal experience (even a group's collective experience) there is another person or group who has/have had a completely different experience. Now...I understand the desire to speak as one as a gay community, but, in the end, we are as diverse as the general population. It's going to be difficult to zero in on a message if we can't accept that people come to their sexuality differently...and we also regard our sexuality differently from each other. We should strive to be as broad as possible in our goal: No matter how we come about our self-knowledge, our choice to live as we please as LAW-ABIDING citizens who are not harming anyone should be repsected and protected under the Constitution of the United States. Just as Christians, Jews, Buddhists and the KKK have a right to choose their belief system and have that protected. Shouldn't we be granted the same rights as the f*cking KKK?

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 12:13pm

Never, ever, had an inkling to experiment with the opposite sex. Never went through that phase myself.

[Bluemoon]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 12:17pm

Geez, DD, this is going to put a real crimp on my plans for the DC BWW party.

[RobbO]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 12:20pm

robbie, that sounds nice but for me my being gay is not a "belief system" like religion. i can choose to be catholic; i was born homosexual.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 12:21pm

Thank you, SOMMS. I needed that today.

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 12:23pm

Well... it's never too late to go through a phase, is it?

Robbie... I agree with what you're saying 100%. But like I said, if there were other examples out there of athletes - the epitome of heterosexuality - that were currently playing and out, then there would be balance. Unfortunately, her coming out and there not being another side is unfortunate. Maybe (hopefully) this might inspire other gay athletes who did not chose to be gay to come out. Then we'd have balance.

[RobbO]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 12:23pm

wow. can you imagine if rath and somms' mated? what would that baby look like?

[RobbO]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 12:24pm

[JailyardGuy]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 12:24pm

"...but for me my being gay is not a "belief system" like religion. i can choose to be catholic; i was born homosexual."

"but for me" is the operative phrase here. :) Some people were born bisexual and decided to pick one. Fine by me...I mean, how many times have we scoffed at bisexuals and said, however jokingly we thought we meant it "Just f*cking PICK ONE already!"

Well, some of them do!

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 12:28pm

Hey! I got rid of the perm in 1982.

[RobbO]

Posted: 12/7/05 at 12:30pm

again, she's not saying she's bi. if she said she was bisexual and chooses to be with a woman, then fine. but that's not what she said.

oh, and i find it funny that she's now the spokeswoman for olivia cruise lines. so it's okay for her to profit "choosing" to be gay?