Cancelled Seaon and No Refunds: Thoughts?

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Cancelled Seaon and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/19/11 at 4:42pm

I'd like some helpful feedback on this.

Intiman Theatre in Seattle has canceled their 2011 season. They are not giving refunds. This just baffles me. Wondering if anyone has any thoughts/suggestions on this? Is this legal? They're not filing Chapter 11. They're offering for us to donate our tickets or possibly use for other local theatre credit. Thing is, I subscribe to all the local equity seasons. It just doesn't seem right to me. Are they withing their legal rights here giving no refunds?

"Broadway...I'll lick you yet!"

Updated On: 4/19/11 at 04:42 PM

Cancelled Seaon and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/19/11 at 4:53pm

That doesn't sound legal. I could see if it were for a few shows and they were offering an exchange, but they cancelled the whole season after people have paid.

Just give the world Love. - S. Wonder

Cancelled Seaon and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/19/11 at 4:55pm

They did 1 show, All My Sons. Still 4 of the remaining shows aren't happening.

"Broadway...I'll lick you yet!"

Updated On: 4/19/11 at 04:55 PM

Cancelled Seaon and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/19/11 at 4:58pm

You might consider contacting the office of your state's Attorney General.

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Cancelled Seaon and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/19/11 at 5:22pm

What is their stated reason for cancelling?

Cancelled Seaon and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/19/11 at 5:24pm

I'm sure there is some complicated legal reason why they can do whatever they like. Im not saying it is fair, but if they dont have to pay creditors, then why should they have to refund subscribers.

"The sexual energy between the mother and son really concerns me!"-random woman behind me at Next to Normal "I want to meet him after and bang him!"-random woman who exposed her breasts at Rock of Ages, referring to James Carpinello

Cancelled Seaon and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/19/11 at 5:44pm

That does not seem right.

Cancelled Season and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/19/11 at 7:08pm

graffiti?

Updated On: 4/19/11 at 07:08 PM

Cancelled Season and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/19/11 at 7:27pm

Not legal.

Imagine if a furniture store canceled your order before you got it but after you paid for it, and told you to consider donating the money you already spent to charity.

No way.

First of all, how can you "donate your tickets" to shows that aren't playing to anything? They're worthless tickets now. The theatre already has your money, so you can't "give" it to charity.

Not only are they in financial trouble, but they're psychotic.

"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."

blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22

#10

Cancelled Season and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/19/11 at 7:36pm

You can also contact your credit card company (assuming that's how you paid). If, for example, you paid by American Express, the theater company doesn't stand a chance.

#11

Cancelled Season and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/19/11 at 7:38pm

I think that if you consider the tickets a donation, you can write them off on your taxes.

But yeah, what a mess.

#12

Cancelled Season and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/19/11 at 8:34pm

Yawper, they say they don't have the financial means to carry on the season AND rebuild their financial errors at the same time.

They are offering a tax write off, but as I already donate, this just seems like a gun at my head donation.

I imagine they're going to rethink their options in the coming days. The email I received contained proposed ideas for current subscribers but several times it definitely said "NO REFUNDS" without and apology or explanation.

I'm confident after their bare bones staff is screamed at repeatedly for the no refund option, they'll be forced to do so. It just seems incredibly bad business (and illegal) if they want these subscribers to join them when they reopen. We'll see how this plays out. I also hope the more aggressive local papers like The Stranger and The Seattle Weekly will call them on their illegal ways and they'll be forced to rethink this.

"Broadway...I'll lick you yet!"

#13

Cancelled Season and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/19/11 at 8:52pm

Maybe a call to the Better Business Bureau may be in order as well.

"All I ask of you is one thing: please don't be cynical. I hate cynicism -- it's my least favorite quality and it doesn't lead anywhere. Nobody in life gets exactly what they thought they were going to get. But if you work really hard and you're kind, amazing things will happen." Conan O'Brien

#14

Cancelled Season and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/19/11 at 8:52pm

I imagine they're within their rights to substitute one play for another, but to claim one suffices for five? No way.

#15

Cancelled Season and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/19/11 at 8:56pm

I wonder, though, if they suggestion of using the tickets at another theatre company is a way around things? You are still being given the option of theatre, just not what you originally paid to see. I'm not a lawyer, so I'm just guessing. And yeah, it sucks to be offered tickets to another theatre in exchange if you already have tickets to the other theatre.

Do you have the tickets on hand, Mildred? Is there any sort of fine print on the back that absolves them from offering a cash refund if the show is cancelled?

#16

Cancelled Season and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/19/11 at 9:43pm

Pyllis, I just looked at the back of the tickets and it says nothing about cancellations on their end. It does say "All Ticket Sales are Final" as with every other ticket, but nothing about their end of things. It directs me to this, a vague page, regarding their policies which also says nothing about a canceled run.

http://www.intiman.org/buy-tickets/ticket-policies/

EDIT: I just went through the sub handbook too, and there's nothing about the event of an entire run or season being canceled. Even if they put the NO REFUNDS over everything, I assume that doesn't get them out of not delivering the product. I get not giving refunds if you change a play for another (which they already did) but not refunding for canceling 4 or the 5 offerings?

"Broadway...I'll lick you yet!"

Updated On: 4/19/11 at 09:43 PM

#17

Cancelled Season and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/19/11 at 9:51pm

The furniture store analogy doesn't work, If a furniture store accepted payment for an item but the said you would get the same item from another affiliate, they might arguably be in their rights.

How are you going o contact the Better Business bureau about a company that is already going under The attorney General is your best bet.

Those Blocked: SueStorm. N2N Nate. Good riddence to stupid! Rad-Z, shill begone!

#18

Cancelled Season and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/19/11 at 10:01pm

They didn't just decide to cancel the season. They are facing a financial crisis that will probably end in bankruptcy.

Your problem is minor compared to the employees of the Intiman, some of whom were given two weeks’ notice, and some of whom were laid off immediately.

You can trade in your unused 2011 tickets for shows at Seattle Rep, ACT, ArtsWest and Seattle Children's Theatre.

That's more than the theater's employees can do.

This is going to be happening to a lot more arts institutions all across the country, as individual donors become cash-poor, corporate donations dwindle, and government support is withdrawn by scalpel-brandishing fiscal conservatives.

Intiman Theater Cancels Season

Updated On: 4/19/11 at 10:01 PM

#19

Cancelled Season and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/19/11 at 10:19pm

Mil subscribes to those already. I don't know if there's ever a satisfying ending. I donated money to two theaters that we on the verge of collapse. One survived. One came back in a new incarnation and does things like Footloose. Ugh.

Twitter @NamoInExile Instagram none

#20

Cancelled Season and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/20/11 at 7:37am

If they're going to restructure and reopen, why don't they just ask patrons to hold onto their tickets until they do, and offer them exchanges for the season next year?

And SNAFU, your analogy of my analogy is off. If we want to keep with the furniture idea, what you're proposing is that they offered me a different couch and table from a different company. Not the one I ordered from a different seller. It's not the same couch.

(Boy, this is sounding weird now.)

Unless, of course, you believe that any play is as good as any other from any theatre. (I'm hoping you don't buy furniture that way.)

"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."

blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22

#21

Cancelled Season and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/20/11 at 9:38am

"First of all, how can you "donate your tickets" to shows that aren't playing to anything? They're worthless tickets now. The theatre already has your money, so you can't "give" it to charity."

Actually that's not correct, but even I don't fully understand why. I used to work for the Metropolitan Opera and everyday people who missed their show or weren't going to be able to attend would call and "donate" their unused tickets. I would give or send them tax write off forms for those tickets but I never really got why those were deductible or why it was considered a "donation".

#22

Cancelled Season and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/20/11 at 12:51pm

If they're going to restructure and reopen, why don't they just ask patrons to hold onto their tickets until they do, and offer them exchanges for the season next year?

From what I've read, they have made that option available. Of course, that's betting on the fact that there will be another season in which to use the tickets.

#23

Cancelled Season and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/20/11 at 12:55pm

I would actually be for the option of moving my tickets to the next season. But this strangely worded option has me more than a tad confused if it is actually a literal transfer of the tickets.

"Invitation to participate and inform our programming and services in 2012 and beyond."

http://www.intiman.org/faq/

"Broadway...I'll lick you yet!"

#24

Cancelled Season and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/20/11 at 1:35pm

I think it's strangely worded because they can't say that there will be a 2012 season.

I would take the tax deduction or the tickets to the other theaters, which you could use as birthday or Christmas presents for your theatergoing friends. But I wouldn't count on there being an Intiman 2012.

For those asking about the tax deduction: You can't deduct "goods and services" bought from nonprofit institutions, but you can deduct charitable contributions. So if you don't use the tickets, you're not receiving the goods or the service and you're entitled to a tax deduction for the price you paid. It's also why, when you buy a ticket to a benefit performance for a high amount, it will list a lower amount you can deduct. The amount that the show is worth is not deductible. Only the portion deemed a charitable contribution is.

Here's wishing the Intiman well!

#25

Cancelled Season and No Refunds: Thoughts?

Posted: 4/20/11 at 1:51pm

It sound like they may not survive; their future is very unclear. There is one thing that is perfectly clear, however: If they are forced to start issuing refunds, they are gone. If they had that kind of cash they wouldn't be canceling their season.

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