Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#1
Posted: 6/14/13 at 5:45pm
FINALLY! These should have been stopped YEARS ago and I can't believe it's taken this long for the courts to get involved. SO many companies have gotten away with getting free labor for way too long!
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Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#2
Posted: 6/14/13 at 6:29pm
You know, I'm reminded of something Orson Welles said in an interview in the early '80s (not long before he died). It haunted me.
"No civilization in the history of mankind has ever been able to sustain itself without a slave society."
It still makes me cringe, but the more I thought about it, the more I think he was right. Many have tried with the noblest of intentions, but none have succeeded.
Look at our country alone ...
Actual slaves, mostly from Africa.
Labor workers before unions or laws to protect them
Women
Children
Undocumented ("illegal aliens")
Overseas workers (sweatshops)
And to a lesser degree, but they certainly qualify, unpaid interns (in some cases).
And that's just the good ol' U.S. of A. We're only 200+ years old.
There are millions of workers in the world who are killing themselves for "slave wages" and deplorable conditions, told they're lucky to have a job, and they support the civilizations on this planet right now. And we support those countries and businesses who facilitate them.
And the minute one of them is eradicated ... we find another slave society to do the work.
Kinda sobering when you think about it.
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#2
Posted: 6/14/13 at 7:01pmAs someone out of undergrad for slightly over a year, I have seen people taken advantage of internships. And I've seen seriously demanding internships present themselves. How is a recent graduate expected to live with what is essentially a full-time job that, if they are lucky, gives them a Metrocard or extremely modest stipend- and a vague promise of career advancement? It's ridiculous. And they exist in all fields. Five day a week, full day internships during all times of the year.
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#3
Posted: 6/14/13 at 7:10pm
I think internships are actually valuable, as long as they aren't exploited.
What I feel is completely wrong is the intern who is treated like an underling or gofer.
If they're in a professional office (ad agency, law firm, architecture firm, etc.), and all they do is filing, getting coffee, and all the sh*t jobs that no one else wants to do, that's a complete misuse of an internship. Unless they're interning to be a file clerk or a support staff worker. If they are there to learn the trade with hands-on experience, that's what they should be doing.
So, yes, they should be working on "real" projects under the supervision of professionals. Is that "free" labor? No, it's training ... but only to a point. There should be limits as to how many hours and how many projects an intern should be able to work.
"Learning" the job isn't "taking over" the job. There needs to be a professional with them, guiding them, supervising them. They should never be wholly responsible for any project. That's not an internship, that's a co-worker.
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#4
Posted: 6/14/13 at 7:15pmInternships can definitely be valuable. The two I have had were wonderful. I did bitch work, sure. But also worked on projects, interacted with artists, attended parties, etc. And I was able to hold actual paying jobs and keep decent hours. I was not doing an unpaid full-time job.
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#5
Posted: 6/14/13 at 8:09pm
When in conjuunction with an educational program, I see nothing wrong with them. In theory, the school is looking out for the well being of their student and their experience.
I don't doubt there is abuse of it, but not because it is an unpaid experience.
I have a former student that cried when he left his internship a few weeks ago. He worked with Jim Henson's Muppet production company (I have no idea the official name of the company) and thought it was more valuable then the rest of his college education entirely.
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#6
Posted: 6/14/13 at 9:32pmDramamama Jim Henson Productions has an incredible intern program. So does NBC where interns work on shows like SNL, Late Night and soon to be here in NY, The Tonight Show. Am actually trying to help a friend's daughter who is studying communications an internship up there.
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#7
Posted: 6/15/13 at 11:23amNice to know he's not the only one that gets a good experience.
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#8
Posted: 6/15/13 at 1:02pmInternships can be a great experience and a wonderful thing. FULL TIME UNPAID internships on the other hand are a totally different thing and something that the government has needed to put a stop to for a very long time.
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#9
Posted: 6/15/13 at 2:52pmFor-profit corporations have no business using unpaid labor. End of story. I've had many an unpaid job in my day, but they were all for small NPOs with pretty much no operating budget to spare. I have pretty much zero sympathy when freaking Conde Nast claims that not paying their workers is okay. (Had to turn down an internship from them once because they would only "pay" in college credit, actually.)
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#10
Posted: 6/15/13 at 2:59pmNYC is rife with organizations for whom the unpaid, full-time internship is a perfectly-designed filter for finding new employees. Conde Nast, The Met, Sotheby's are interested less in the academic record or actual skill-set of new hires than they are in their 'look' and their style. What better way to filter out the un-washed than to select from a pool of people who don't really need a paycheck?
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#11
Posted: 6/15/13 at 3:19pmAnd MANY of nyc's casting offices/producing offices are guilty of this as well. And I speak from experience.
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#12
Posted: 6/15/13 at 3:33pmI don't get unpaid internships if they aren't tied in to a college experience. That's just stupid.
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#13
Posted: 6/15/13 at 4:07pmJordan, I JUST saw a posting for an internship at Telsey that had outrageous hours. It was legitimately a full-time job. Arguably more demanding than many entry-level full time jobs, too. Who can afford to take these without support from a trust fund etc? How is this fair, how is this educational?
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#14
Posted: 6/15/13 at 4:12pm
Oh yeah, Playbill's listings are full of casting offices "hiring" unpaid workers.
The Department of Labor regulations on this are actually pretty darn reasonable - it's just that they're not really enforced. If a for-profit company is getting a benefit from the intern that they'd get from a paid worker, rather than putting the intern through an apprenticeship/training that isn't for the company's immediate benefit, said company has to pay a wage. Done.
Back in college I used to be pissy that my school refused to give academic credit for internships, but in retrospect, I applaud their integrity.
Updated On: 6/15/13 at 04:12 PM
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#15
Posted: 6/15/13 at 4:16pmKad, Telsey's unpaid internships are 8 hours a day (some days more depending on what's happening), 5 days a week (or more depending on what's happening). The experience there is invaluable and the people are amazing. But it's still unpaid labor in a full time job.
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#16
Posted: 6/15/13 at 4:17pmGirl from Girls would be perfect for that job.
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#17
Posted: 6/15/13 at 4:30pmYou mean the girl who does those weird things?
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#18
Posted: 6/15/13 at 4:32pmThe lead one played by Lean Durham. Girl is her name, I believe.
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#19
Posted: 6/15/13 at 4:33pmI had a few internships when I was in high school & college. All were part-time and unpaid, but most were invaluable in exposing me to professional theatre. Sure, there were errands and data entry, but I learned so much. I did have an internship at a regional theatre, though, where my boss just didn't want to hire someone. My internships overall helped my career just as much as my bachelors degree. Updated On: 6/15/13 at 04:33 PM
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#20
Posted: 6/15/13 at 4:37pm
But how is the argument that "you'll learn so much" a valid one? If you were hired by a company (with pay) to do that job, would you not learn the same amount PLUS be compensated for your time and your labor?
The mindset that unpaid internships are good because "you'll learn so much" is ridiculous and it's THAT mindset that has to change.
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#21
Posted: 6/15/13 at 4:43pm
100% agreed, Jordan. Every job is a learning experience! But it's also a job. Which pays you money for your time and labor.
Again, the only way I find it acceptable to do unpaid internships is if you're doing it for an NPO - if you're basically donating your labor to charity, in other words. Otherwise you're basically using your parents to subsidize a corporation, which is ridiculous on just about every possible level.
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#22
Posted: 6/15/13 at 4:52pm
I'm more forgiving if the internship is done while a student- essentially it's another class (in theory).
But once you're out of school? Why should you be doing so much for nothing but "experience" and the thought that you're fortunate enough to even be getting that? Every intern has the idea in the back of their mind that their position will eventually become employment- it sometimes happens, sure.
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/6/04
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#23
Posted: 6/15/13 at 6:50pm
i just got a second Masters in Counseling, Marriage and Family Therapy... and nearly every job is an unpaid internship! my internship was unpaid while a grad student but now that i have an actual degree I can't get paid... it's horrible... I know I need the experience but I need money to pay off students loans and other bills... it's annoying...
at least when I was intern in my first Masters program I got a paid internship...
Courts Weigh Legality of Unpaid Internships#24
Posted: 6/15/13 at 6:55pmEmployers shouldn't ransom "experience," which can be had in paid employment and in education, for servitude.
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