Does Anyone Give Money to the Salvation Army Outside Stores?- Page 2

[mominator]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 7:13am

Once again I am with Moony, as a small child when there was a very bad fire in my house they were the first to offer help. Again later on in my life as a young teen stuck in the hospital for several months due to pre op, and post op for my scoliosis. I missed several holidays; it was the Salvation Army once again who was there. While I do not believe in all the practices; I do think about the good they have done for me in my life.
So yes I do drop a dollar or two in when I get the chance, as do my kids. I even like the bells.

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 7:57am

My family will often donate, because my grandfather told us that the Salvation Army was so good to the soldiers in Europe during WWII. The Red Cross charged for coffee and food, but the Salvation Army always gave it to the soldiers for free.

[romantico]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 9:52am

Many other organizations without religious or discriminatory agendas also help the starving homeless.Given the Number of Non-Bigoted Charities Struggling For Money it is unconscionable to donate money to the Salvation Army. You can rationalize it all you like, but if you donate to the Salvation Army, you are financing hate.The Salvation Army has even used funds to hire lobbyist.The Salvation Army Lobbies AGAINST Pro-Gay Legislation.They also will not hire gay people.

Opposition to hiring homosexuals

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Salvation_Army#Controversy

The Salvation Army in the U.S. has been the topic of some controversial discussions about discrimination against homosexuals in their hiring practices.<22> According to lesbian/gay newsmagazine The Advocate, in 2001, the Bush administration was "willing to do whatever it takes to perpetuate, support, and defend discrimination against gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender individuals" in exchange for The Salvation Army's lobby support for Faith-Based Initiatives, in what the publication described as a "secret arrangement."<23> The New York Times reported that the Salvation Army believed it had a firm commitment from the White House to issue a regulation that would override local antidiscrimination laws. A disclosure of The Salvation Army's request "outraged some civil rights groups and lawmakers," and resulted in an immediate reversal of a previous promise to honor the request. The Salvation Army maintains that they were "not trying to get permission to discriminate against hiring gays and lesbians for the majority of its roughly 55,000 jobs and merely wanted a federal regulation that made clear that the charity did not have to ordain sexually active gay ministers and did not have to provide medical benefits to the same-sex partners of employees." <24>

The Salvation Army's position is that because it is a church, Section VII of the U.S. Civil Rights Act of 1964 explicitly guarantees its right to discriminate on the basis of its religious beliefs in its hiring. To reinforce its position, it threatened to close all soup kitchens in New York City when the city government proposed legislation that would require all organizations doing business with it to provide equal benefits to unmarried domestic partners.<25>

Their policy has not changed.

Updated On: 12/1/09 at 09:52 AM

[Bluemoon]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 10:32am

"Given the Number of Non-Bigoted Charities Struggling For Money it is unconscionable to donate money to the Salvation Army. You can rationalize it all you like, but if you donate to the Salvation Army, you are financing hate."

I would have a better sense of that if I hadn't done research to see where the money from the red kettle campaign actually goes. I'm satisfied that 94 cents of every dollar I donate goes to holiday time relief services. If I felt that these services were discriminatory in any manner I wouldn't give. If you can list some of the Non-Bigoted Charities Struggling For Money I would gladly send them donations as well. Who knows - maybe I already do! Thanks -

Posted: 12/1/09 at 10:42am

Yawper I am sorry I misunderstood your question- I thought you were looking for a gay/Lesbian organization that helped the LGBT community. My bad!

[romantico]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 10:59am

If you are OK with your money going to a group that is anti gay, that's your choice.I have provided two links already and if you are still not convinced that the SA is anti gay than nothing I can say will convince you either.I however plan on sticking vouchers in the kettles this holiday and if asked I will tell them I do not support homophobia of any kind.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:966d4V16D_kJ:www.soulforce.org/pdf/kettlevoucher.pdf+salvation+army+gay+voucher&hl=en&gl=us&sig=AHIEtbRk8noc7H8xWPl5FVPxpMtkZB2jvQ

I'm not sure I am reading your post correctly. Do you disagree that the Salvation Army discriminates against homosexuals?

Updated On: 12/1/09 at 10:59 AM

[Bluemoon]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 11:07am

Yes, I saw those links. I was wondering if you had links for those Non-Bigoted Charities Struggling For Money you had mentioned. I think we can both agree to support their relief efforts - the need is great, particularly this year.

[romantico]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 11:46am

"I would have a better sense of that if I hadn't done research to see where the money from the red kettle campaign actually goes. I'm satisfied that 94 cents of every dollar I donate goes to holiday time relief services."

Can you provide a link backing that up? I would like to send it to a friend of mine. Q brings up an interesting point regarding denying benefits to gay partners from 911.That alone would turn me away forever from anything related to the Salvation Army.I say let people do their own research and decide for themselves.

http://gaylesbianlifestyle.today.com/2008/11/30/the-salvation-army-declined-to-help-gay-couples/

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/16/20502/762

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/1113-06.htm

I'm curious. You said as far as policy goes you do not agree with them theologically, politically or socially, but your giving them money to fund their homeless shelters and soup kitchens, not their church. You are STILL giving them your hard earned money. This group received money from Americans and people all over the world in a time of need to help the victims of 911, but ONLY heterosexual victims.Gays got nothing! You support this group.You insist YOUR dollars do not fund this portion of the group and you even admit you disagree with their policy. With SO MANY Charities, why in the hell would you so blindly give your money to a group associated with being so cruel to gay people?

As for the non bigoted charities, I was thinking more of local charities. I live in Hartford and I donate to AIDS Project Hartford and the Gay Youth Center. Here are a couple suggestions.

http://www.thetrevorproject.org/home2.aspx

http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/aboutus/?ref=main-menu

Or you can go here:

http://www.charitynavigator.org/

I entered "GLBT" in the 'charity search' box at the top of the page and got 23 entries.

Updated On: 12/1/09 at 11:46 AM

[winston89]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 12:45pm

I think that what bothers me the most about them is the fact that there is now an Iphone/ Ipod touch app that is a virtual bell. In other words, you can shake your phone with this app and it sound just like the bell that they ring.

I actually saw that happening at Penn Station the other day and that annoyed the hell out of me even more then those little bells normally do.

[Bluemoon]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 1:42pm

I didn't mean to abandon the discussion here - I'm running in and out of meetiins today. Everyone has their "deal breaker" for decision making. I would imagine that most, if not all, church-based charities would run afoul of your parameters for right governance. That's right and fair and I have to applaud your passion and commitment to justice as you see it. you obvisously give with integrity. Thank you for listing doctors without borders link. A have a friend serving with them in Somalia this year - very important work.

The following charity watchdog gives Salvation Army an "A". But I can certainly understand that they could be tops on any list and you would not support them because of of their other practices. Fair enough. It's not the same for me, so I answered the question, posed by this thread title, as yes.

http://www.charitywatch.org/toprated.html

[romantico]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 2:02pm

BlueMoon, even though my post(s) may sound like I am trying to persuade, I am actually trying to understand.I am sure SA gets an A and does do some good. I however can not excuse their discrimination and hate.

Anyway, Doctors without Borders is a good one, I think we both can agree on that.Anyways,thanks for the link.

[AbbaRabbit]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 2:04pm

starting december 1st (so today), every time i walk by a bell ringer, once i am out of their line of sight (i dont want to look rude), i take a dollar from my wallet and put it in my coat pocket. at the end of the month, i take that money and divide it in 3, and make a larger donation to 3 causes that are very important to me: the tibetan nuns project, the campaghn urging research for eosinophilic disease, and the MCC church in hartford. i feel like i'm making a bigger difference than if i just stuck a dollar in their buckets, especially since the charities i donate to are not extreamly well known.
although this year, i may divide it into 4 parts and donate 1 part to the helen and harry grey cancer center, since that's where my best friend was treated this past summer for testicular cancer, and i think if would be nice to make a donation to them since they saved his life.

Updated On: 12/1/09 at 02:04 PM

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 2:04pm

How do you know that some of those doctors aren't anti-gay?

[Magdalene]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 4:10pm

I put change in the bucket, since the SA puts most of their money into programs, not fundraising.

[StageManager2]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 4:55pm

Romantico, you sound like Catholic Charities when they threatened to stop helping DC's poor if the City Council legalized gay marriage. Either way, the poor get screwed.

If you don't want to donate, that's fine, but why are you making it your mission to stop the donations that would help those in need?

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 4:57pm

Romantico, you sound like Catholic Charities when they threatened to stop helping DC's poor if the City Council legalized gay marriage.

Or the Salvation Army in 2004!

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 5:04pm

I guess "Purity" standards are not limited to the GOP.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 5:06pm

We used to take purity tests all the time in college.

[romantico]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 5:08pm

Stagemanager,Its something I feel passionate about.Some people were not aware of the Salvation Army's views on same sex couples.I'm simply informing those who did not know. Also, when I started the thread I was not sure if they still practiced the same policy.I discovered since then they do.The Salvation Army is not the only charity to help the poor so I don't see how that alone is screwing them over.If and when the day comes and the Salvation Army reverses their policies towards gays,I will be the first to donate.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 5:08pm

I used to have the Maranatha try to convert me.

But, after the crazy visiting preacher called me a double x-rated lust filled whore, the left me alone.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 5:22pm

"Double-x rated lust filled whore" is an awesome string of words.

I'm of several minds about this. I see romantico's point, and I see Bluemoon's point. I believe people can and should their money to whomever or whatever they see fit, but I think it's always good to be aware of where it's going. That said, it's hard to follow the trail on a lot of things so you often have to hope for the best and just do what you think is right.

Somebody anecdotally mentioned earlier the Salvation Army trumping the Red Cross in a certain situation. For me, the Red Cross is not a group I want to deal with. Sure, there is the good they do, but for me I can't get past the "if you admit to having had sex with a man who has had sex with another man since 1977 you're out" rule when it comes to donating blood.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 5:33pm

Yes, it was pretty fantastic. Especially since I was pretty damn conservative personally (unfortunately, still am).

I see both points, but sometimes, (and this is just me again) I feel like as a straight person, there is a test you have to pass to prove that in every aspect of your life you are GAYOK.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 5:37pm

Poor little straight girl, with your marriage rights and all.

(Kidding!)

No, I get what you're saying, but I don't think it's an exclusively gay thing. I think plenty of people within various groups have their litmus tests as to what gives a person a pass and what doesn't.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 5:53pm

Oh, I agree. It is not unique to any one group. I think this Board is in some ways unique because it has a cross section of folks from a variety of backgrounds. I have no idea what it is like to stand in a gay persons shoes, and and perhaps, if I was gay, I would have the same passion that Romantico and others on this board have. I am not, so I was just trying to articulate (perhaps in artfully) my reaction.

And, I would gladly give you my right to marry if I could. They are clearly going dormant with me and are getting stale. Can rights atrophy from lack of use?









Updated On: 12/1/09 at 05:53 PM

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 12/1/09 at 5:58pm

I agree with Bluemoon: everyone has to figure it out for themselves.

YWIW, for me it's not a matter of anyone proving they're GAYOK (great phrase, btw). It's just that if you announce that you're not, I'll probably take my business elsewhere. And yes, I'll make a point to tell as people as I can why I'm doing that.

Stagemanager, I don't think anyone is saying to stop donating. It's not as though I can't give my dollars to organizations who don't claim discrimination as one of their founding principles (though SA looks to be making a valiant effort--as most bigots do--to say they're not bigoted).

There are plenty of needy people to go around.