Dreamgirls: The problem is the MUSIC?- Page 2

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/19/06 at 5:42pm

That's a shame, DG, because you're right. These people who are shelling out $25 a pop have a vested interest on some level. I guess I was expecting a more typical movie theatre audience, but I was wrong.

The elevated price weeds out everyone who doesn't really care about this project.

So in a way... you're paying extra for the "quality of the crowd," just as much as a glossy program, reserved seats, and killer picture & audio.

I'll bet if you go Christmas day, or soon after, you'll have a very enthusiastic audience though. Just a hunch.

[Wildcard]

Posted: 12/19/06 at 6:14pm

I think some critics still look at this movie as a biopic. They fail to realize that this is based on musical theater. The songs are not there merely for performance purposes. Songs in musical theater piece exist to 1) move the story along; and 2) express an emotion to great to be spoken in words. I think Dreamgirls succeed in both counts.

This raises a question.... should a musical's musical themes always reflect the subject matter it is based on? While "Ragtime" had some ragtime tunes, not all the songs were rag... is "Miss Saigon's" music not Vietnamese enough (or Thai, for those scenes in Thailand)? Why aren't there more accordion sounds in "Les Mis"? And "Can You Feel The Love Tonight" certainly does not sound African to me.

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/19/06 at 6:29pm

Wildcard, I agree. I think the "confusion" in some of these critics stems from the fact that Bill Condon scaled back much of the "Broadway" aspects of the score, to make it both cinematic and more palpable for today's audience. So, many DO think it's a bio-pic now... like many of the other bio-pics of late (Ray, Walk the Line, etc.) and they wonder why they aren't hearing Supremes and James Brown or Little Richard songs, instead of this... "theatrical" stuff.

Maybe it's a mixed message for those audience members that aren't used to hearing this stylized sound in a "realistic" environment.

All I know is that if they had kept all of that original recitative singing, especially right off the bat, they would have lost at least half the modern movie-going audience in the first five minutes. And we'd probably have a really nice art-house hit.

This way, at least, I think it stands a big chance of pleasing BOTH crowds, and "crossing over." The Broadway lovers...

...and the rest of those losers out there who JUST DON'T GET MUSICALS.

[roquat]

Posted: 12/19/06 at 6:43pm

I do think poor Henry Krieger is taking quite a beating in the reviews, perhaps more than he deserves. But the stage production of DREAMGIRLS became a hit because of Michael Bennett's staging (fluid and unbroken and "cinematic" before that became de rigeur) and Jennifer Holliday's performance. The material was never acknowledged to be "great"; in fact, most critics didn't "get it" in 1981 either. The irony is that it now looks like it'll be up to another Jennifer to rescue it once again (or not).

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 12/19/06 at 7:30pm

Actually, back to Joe's original comment, a friend of the family who does work in the music business, in terms of playing in orchestra pits for musicals, did comment to me a couple of days ago that there was some serious issues with the orchestration side of things - not the singing, but the orchestrations.

I have not seen the movie yet, and from what I have heard on the soundtrack, it sounds fine to me, but he mentioned that his friends on the production said there were some serious problems. Perhaps they got worked out before everything was finalized.

(Note, I am just relaying this, probably inartfully, and have no more information than what is above.)

[Liverpool]

Posted: 12/19/06 at 8:10pm

exaclty YWIW, the orchestrations are subpar in many places.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 12/20/06 at 8:14am

The "music is lousy" critics would rather be watching a jukebox musical biography of Diana Ross and the Supremes.

Dreamgirls ain't that and never was.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 12/20/06 at 10:29am

Okay, I was there last nite, and it was so great to be there with a full theater of people who wanted to experience this together. It was most like a broadway show...We were center balcony (GREAT seats) and when the light went down we could see hundreds of cell phones being turned off...without any request from management! You could hear a pin drop during most of the film, and applause after every number (and expected line.)

I agree that the naysaying critics were expecting the wrong thing here in regards to the music. I thought the music was great...and was worried a bit due to these reviewers (foolish me!) I even liked "Family" and the way it was staged and

**Spoiler alert**


later used as a Dreams song. I thought the cuts were VERY well done, losing some of what was not necessary and would have been distracting to a general audience...especially well done was "It's All Over" leading up to AIATYING. I loved the use of the stage, and I think the build up from "Love me! Curtis was supposed to love me!" to Effie and Curtis left onstage alone is necessary to make AITY more desperate. That could not have been easy for any of them to pull off onscreen.

The only musical mistake (and it's both vocals and the direction) was "When I First Saw You." It was the only groanworthy part of the film for me. I blame Jamie Foxx mostly, as his performance was phoned in and I was tired of it by that part of the film. I didnt like the use of the house either. The Deena photographs behind her was too too much and pretty cheesy. It's understood she's now a superstar, and they have money and he is obsessed with her. Enough.

Jennifer Hudson was so wonderful, and I was so surprised by it, that I'm not sure what to say. She simply lit up the screen and her vocals were stunning.

Eddie Murphy won me over as the performing Jimmy, but it was later when he simply turned and gave CC a look that he broke my heart. He was simply perfect.

Rose and Leal were both wonderful, but I wanted more. How gorgeous can two girls be?! I liked the addition of Patience and the scene after, in fact all three songs were very good and fit in the film, imo.

Beyonce, was terrific except in her scenes with Foxx. I felt no chemistry, mostly from Foxx who didnt seem to want to be there!
In performance scenes she was flawless.

One plot problem I've always had, and it's important to the resolution of Effie and Deena's relationship, is how could Deena truly not know anything about what Curtis did to Effie's recording of One Night Only. It makes Deena seem stupid, even if she was so sheltered, Lorell and Michelle would've found out. The only reason I mention it is that it is more obvious here on film than on stage.

I was not bothered by the clip footage at all...some really were bothered by it, but it explains the passing of time...and I dont understand the complaint that they were too long. None seemed too long to me.

The "ending" didnt bother me too much, yet it was unnecessary. The dreams are back together...the end!

Flawed, to be sure, but so satisfying and fun. Condon did a great job, tho with the flaws, it will need to be a very big hit (which seems likely) for him to be nom'd for an AA, or even the film as best pic. JHud and Murphy deserve noms and possible wins (and I was reluctant to say that before last nite.)

I just kept wondering how much better it would've been with Terence Howard as Curtis...ah well.

[Kringas]

Posted: 12/20/06 at 10:34am

Yay! I'm so glad to hear that you liked it. I can't wait till Monday night when I get to see it again.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 12/20/06 at 10:39am

Thanks honey, I did.

I am still pretty stunned by Hudson and Murphy...I'm not over it yet.

She was also on Leno last night, adorable as can be, getting pretty comfortable with interviews.

She sang "One Night Only" and, out of context, it didnt work well for me...Lillias owns that song in my book.

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/20/06 at 10:43am

I'm glad you kinda liked it!

Kinda.

I think.

Okay, "mixed-to-positive" review.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 12/20/06 at 10:45am

No, I really liked it...just not Jamie Foxx!

(This is why I dont do reviews here!)

:)

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/20/06 at 10:55am

I actually thought Jamie was great... but he has two strikes against him...

1) The character isn't likable to begin with, and they made him MUCH nastier in the second half of the story than he was on stage.

2) By cutting nearly all of the recitative singing for the film, they cut most of what Curtis had to do musically... since he never had his own song in the stage show. His "musical charm" was basically removed from the film adaptation. They gave him "When I First Saw You..." as a solo, which I thought was actually great. It WAS cold, and creepy, and "unfeeling"... because he's looking at her as if she was a doll, or a vision, but NOT a human. She's plastered all over the wall behind him, and he's one notch away from Kathy Bates in Misery in my book. It takes a sweet love song and gives it quite a "chill," and I thought that was a great touch... and a VERY unusual approach to a love song... but I liked it... and Jamie... quite a bit.

And the lack of chemistry between Jamie and Beyonce in the second half is really appropriate, and I believe intentional... these two characters have nothing in common... as they come to find out, other than wanting her to succeed... but for VERY different reasons.

I loved their dinner scene together... when they are at opposite ends of a long table. It reminded me of the dinner scene in Citizen Kane... when Kane and his first wife (Ruth Warrick) have a very similar "cold" scenario. It was a nice nod to an old classic... and that picture of them, so far apart from each other... paints a thousand words, as they say.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 12/20/06 at 11:12am

well then, you're a fool!

Just kidding...I see what you are saying, but it didn't work that way for me.

Deena going from "I dont want to be out front" to "Keep me out front, and I'll marry you so you can protect me" seems forced, though it may be something that I'm not seeing in her character. I always felt that she truly loved him, and he loved the power over her (but thinks he truly loves her.)

I will chalk it up to the argument that Deena's character is truly undeveloped.

Now I want to see it again from your perspective!! Ah, I just want to see it again :)

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/20/06 at 11:37am

Deena DOES love Curtis. I think that's pretty clear. She wouldn't be that emotionally vulnerable to him if it was just a "business deal."

I don't believe she's quite that calculated... although she knows exactly how much he can do for her career and she "works it," more here in the film than in the stage show.

But Curtis only LOVES what Deena can be for him (as portrayed by Jamie). She is his dream, as he sings. His dream of success. He doesn't love her as a person. I don't even think he can necessarily love someone that way.

...Fool.



EDIT: You know, it might have been a better arc for her character if in that dinner scene, she just didn't give a sh*t, instead of being wounded by his horrible comments.

It would have also been a better transition for her when she...

SPOILER!!! SPOILER!!! SPOILER!!!
















...turns his ass in, shortly after that.

Updated On: 12/20/06 at 11:37 AM

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 12/20/06 at 11:44am

*Spoiler*





I LOVED Momma turning the corner when he comes in..."My daughter called and said she needed me."

[DG]

Posted: 12/20/06 at 11:53am

SOOOOO - We're going to be in San Francisco on Friday, and there are TWO special showings that day. Now all I have to do is convince the other three men that it's worth 25 bucks to see it this way! Or, I can go alone . . . which might be safer in the long run - in case I get a little carried away

[RobbO]

Posted: 12/20/06 at 11:55am

**spoiler**

the scenes where eddie murphy played a untalented, straight, black entertainer really surprised me!

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 12/20/06 at 11:57am

I hate you.

:)

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 12/20/06 at 1:09pm

I can't wait to see it again!

[TAFKASP]

Posted: 12/20/06 at 1:16pm

Everywhere I turn I hear Hillary Clinton!