Evacuations hampered by gunshots and fires

[beacon1]

Posted: 9/1/05 at 9:43am

Just how incredibly awful is this:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9156612/&X=1

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/1/05 at 9:48am

It's awful. People are cracking. Though there now is a mandatory evacuation of the city of New Orleans, only people inside the Superdome are allowed on the buses going to Houston's Astrodome. Not surprisingly, people who weren't in the Superdome but who have no other way to comply with the mandatory evacuation showed up to leave. And THEY are cracking too.

[beacon1]

Posted: 9/1/05 at 10:03am

It is taking on a surreal "Escape from NY", "Escape from LA" sort of feel.

If they can complete the evacuations of the willing...who will be left. Will they just kill each other off in the growing cesspool which was the Big Easy.

[beacon1]

Posted: 9/1/05 at 10:10am

And the craziness isn't just in New Orleans. There also was an item about a man in Mississippi who shot his sister in the head over a bag of ice...

Posted: 9/1/05 at 10:12am

I wonder if things would be different if all those middle-to-upper-class (mostly white) folks who were able to evacuate were the ones stuck in this quagmire, instead of the poor (mostly black) ones who had no way or means to escape?

[Auggie27]

Posted: 9/1/05 at 10:26am

Yes, Dgrant, there is no avoiding the way this tragedy is shining a spotlight on the options available to different classes in this country -- a supposedly "classless society" -- when catastrophe strikes. The lower-income urban populace couldn't lock up, jump in their SUVS, and head to northern relatives who own safe, dry digs.

I believe: How we handle this crisis will define us for decades to come.

Posted: 9/1/05 at 10:28am

And by 'would things be different', I mean on the part of the official responders, NOT the actions of those stranded. I just realized that my post could be interpreted that way - and that's NOT what I mean at all.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/1/05 at 10:29am

i think the response to someone shooting at you's fairly universal regardless of who is holding the gun.

Posted: 9/1/05 at 10:32am

I'm not talking to that specific response - I'm talking more about the general approach, which in some way may be contributing to this escalation into violence.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/1/05 at 10:40am

When Soledad (ex-MTV News Bryant Gumble soundalike) O'Brien on CNN asked the rhetorical question today, "Should New Orleans rebuild?" some incredulous wag said "Of COURSE they should rebuild. Can you imagine anybody asking that question if this happened in Brooklyn or San Francisco?"

I think this crisis is shining a light on the HUGE economic disparities that this storm is only going to exacerbate around the country. And that is the reason the focus on property theft, because it really is what happens when people who have nothing go over the edge.

As a side note, the Salon article Iflit posted said that New Orleans getting hit by a hurricane was one of the top three most devastating crises likely to hit the US including "terrorist attack in NYC."

It's just so heart-wrenching to see that FEMA is so ineffective at this point, and distressing to see this as an exercise of a version what (GOD FOR FRIGGIN BID) will happen if something big and awful hits NYC.

Duct tape and granola bars and a bottle of water just are not going to cut it. And our broke ass government (because our treasure chest from the Clinton years has been plundered) won't be able to do anything except get people riled up about theft of property and how "wrong" that is. Well, that's hardly the biggest thing that's "wrong" here.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/1/05 at 10:45am

i think what's hampering the "general approach" is a massive inability to communicate in any meaningful way to the people who are trapped ssince they can't watch it on tv or hear it on the radio or see it on the internet or hear about it on their phones (cell or otherwise). there's no tv for them to watch to find out what's going on, at this point batteries have to be a commodity that's going at a premium, and even those will not help radios that have been submerged. the problem as i see it is that there is no realistic way of letting the majority of people who arte trying to find shelters where to go. the other has been how to get them out once they're gathered somewhere with the flooding as bad as it is. coordinating a rescue effort in which most of the area (miles and miles and miles of it) is incommunicado is difficult at best and thus far the disorganization which has been evident is not one related to class but to the massive scale.

i saw a lovely piece extolling the virtues of craigslist's response from people who are posting online promises of housing to displaced victims and i thought, "man that's so great, i bet the massive amount of people who are trapped are logged on right now choosing new places to live." while it's commendable that they are making the offers, who do they think is reading them?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/1/05 at 10:50am

However, I do think the class disparities have a bright light shone on them when people on this website (whom I'd bet are not lower or working class types, for the most part) and the Fox News types are so upset about the stolen plasma TVs. I do think that what motivates a poor person who doesn't know what the hell is happening (BECAUSE of that lack of ability to communicate with anybody official) to just steal something, whether or not there's anyplace to plug it in.

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 9/1/05 at 11:01am

I believe this tragedy should shine a light on the enormous class diparities we have in this country, that Namo has been writting about so eloquently. It is likely that it won't though and a large part of that problem is the coverage. Those with resources who give some are shown as "heroes" while those with nothing but desperation are demonized.

As far as the looting I agree with the sentiments that there is no way to judge that, in a situation that dire people do anything that can give them a since of security, anything to seem in control of their situation. If we had been in dire poverty and then subject to complete disaster I think there is no way to tell what we would do. These are people with so few resources they could not leave the area. They asked the same thing of Harry Connick a minute ago on MSNBC and he gave the same response, "if I had been in this situation for so long I can not say I wouldn't do the same. It has been really bad down here economically for a very long time."

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 9/1/05 at 11:05am

Namo, you are a tool who can't see past his own agenda. I was NOT upset that plasma tv's were being STOLEN, I am upset that people have NO PLACE TO LIVE and NO PLACE TO LAY THEIR OWN HEADS and yet are being accused of stealing things like plasma tv's. Got it now, brilliant one?

Updated On: 9/1/05 at 11:05 AM

[justme2]

Posted: 9/1/05 at 11:23am

Yeah FindingNamo..you BETTER not be referring to my posts last night. I made it abundantly clear that the problem is NOT the stolen property...it's the lawlessness. They had to abandon efforts to rescue people because of the "opportunist looters (ONCE AGAIN...I guess I have to make it clear that it not's the "we need help" looters" that we were talking about last night)who are shooting at RESIDENTS left behind in their houses.

But, according to you....these looters need to get their feelings out??

[Marquise]

Posted: 9/1/05 at 11:36am

the problem with this board is that sometimes someone feels the need to be the "know-it-all".
Updated On: 9/1/05 at 11:36 AM

[RobbO]

Posted: 9/1/05 at 11:38am

yeah, marquise, i've discussed this issue with you and wish it would stop.

[Marquise]

Posted: 9/1/05 at 11:41am

i know i just can't stop.
now shut the f*k up.

Posted: 9/1/05 at 11:43am

I think the point trying to be made is that the 'lawlessness' is being interpreted through the eyes of those from a position of 'safe removal', if you will. The actions taking place may or may not fall into the easily classifiable restrictions that we normally use to monitor our actions as a group. These are extreme circumstances, and may arguably cause extreme reactions that cannot be logically defined in our normal way.

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 9/1/05 at 11:46am

And just why is it that after a basket of people is lifted to safety in the helicopters that the empty basket can't be dropped again filled with food and water for those still waiting?

[justme2]

Posted: 9/1/05 at 11:47am

I completely understand that.

My point is that we can't just turn our heads and say "let these people vent", because they are hampering rescue and evacuation efforts.

Just because a behaviour is justified doesn't mean it shouldn't be stopped.

[Marquise]

Posted: 9/1/05 at 11:52am

i think it's inhuman that some people are being rescued while others are being left behind to fend for themeselves.
let me be the one left behind while i see others being taken to safety and you'll see me shooting up a storm...
that is truly one f*ck'd up situation to be in.

Updated On: 9/1/05 at 11:52 AM

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 9/1/05 at 11:52am

In ANY case, I think we can all agree that this is really terrible for everyone. I wish that there was something that I could do for those poor people.

[robbiej]

Posted: 9/1/05 at 11:52am

The only law that exists right now is survival of the fittest. Grab what you can (even if we can't make any sense of why they've grabbed it) and do what you must to survive. The government forces as of right now are failing these people. There is no forseeable help and not forseeable future. What else are people going to do??

I hope to God I never face anything like this. Cause, let me tell you, I'll do whatever it takes to stay alive.

[Marquise]

Posted: 9/1/05 at 11:55am

yeah, and this is all happening right before your eyes in the good ol' Unites States of America.
Land of the Free and Home of the Brave...
The Land of Equal Opportunity my @ss!