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#76

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 1:00pm

The world is full of dictators, including ones with more direct designs on us than Hussein. Do we go around attacking them all?

Uh, no. We're the country with the most resources, but not one with unlimited resources. And frankly, I find Bush's flip-flopping (ha!) about the reasons for invading Iraq in the first place to be extremely alarming. Starting a war is the most important, deadly, significant decision a President can make. The reasons for it shouldn't be some kind of vague pre-emption strategy. A new world order doesn't mean an end to "old-fashioned" morality.

Updated On: 11/3/04 at 01:00 PM

#77

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 1:01pm

*hugs Bobby*

"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. Ralph Waldo Emerson

#78

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 1:07pm

Its gonna take 4 years to change that mentality.....besides...By that time Bush will have this country so much more screwed up that this country will elect a damn goat just to get his A$$ outa there! of course, as usual, its going to take a democrat to get in there and clean up the damn mess that the republicans have caused once again!

"It never bothered me that she called me a c*nt, it bothered me that I answered to it!" Carol Channing about Ethel Merman filming an episode of "The Love Boat"

#79

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 1:09pm

Maybe the rednecks will send a goat to DC, after they break up with it.

"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. Ralph Waldo Emerson

#80

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 1:11pm

"yes i voted for bush and i am gay, and i love theatre"

So basically, you respect a man who wants to ensure you are never considered an equal citizen, no matter how you vote. Nice move. When you get hit by flack from a terrorist bomb, which Bush's reign will most likely incite rather than extinguish, rest assured that it is likely your boyfriend will be turned away at the hospital. Should you die, he can lawfully be treated as though you and he never knew each other. O

h yeah, and in some cases, should you find a job in the next four years, I wouldn't admit you're gay. In many places, you can be legally fired for that and Bush will happily ignore it, if not applaud it openly. If you're going to vote for Bush, why bother coming out of the closet? It was simply a waste of time.

"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian

#81

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 1:18pm

"Democrats cannot even get a man elected, what in the hell do they think they could do to get a woman elected."

Now that was just a stupid thing to say. That woman is the wife of the man the Democrats got elected for 2 terms. The Democrat who kept Bush Sr. from a second term. Forget Hilary...look to Obama.

"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian

#82

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 1:20pm

Dear God, do I love Nader- he just awes me, even if he just took some votes away from Kerry. I wish the Democrats would have nominated him, I know that isn't realistic though.

Oh well... what's done is (sadly) done. Now it is important to concentrate on the future, just because Bush won doesn't neccessarily mean that all is lost. I mean, ideally we are still a democracy, and we can make our feelings known- if everyone admits defeat in our opposition to the war, and in so many of the homefront issues as well, THEN we'll have lost, THEN America will have really gone to hell.

#83

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 1:30pm

"The Virgin Mary could run for election and the Religious Right still would not vote for her in THIS U.S."

I don't think that's necessarily true.

I do NOT think Hillary could carry the South.

#84

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 1:33pm

Your right Rodney......you DONT think

"It never bothered me that she called me a c*nt, it bothered me that I answered to it!" Carol Channing about Ethel Merman filming an episode of "The Love Boat"

#85

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 1:50pm

"Not only rude but arrogant as well."

Pot....kettle....

And it was a stupid thing to say. I was sophisticated enough to explain why. If I was simply rude and arrogant, I wouldn't have bothered with the explaination.

"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian

#86

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 2:06pm

Personally, I'm still waiting for Princess to say why she supports Bush. I go to a school 90% full of Bush supporters. It is so hard to just see how ignorant and close-minded some of these people are. Personally, I think Bush got elected so that the Americans could get shoved off their high horse when things just get worse and we may have to ask OTHER COUNTRIES (lions, and tigers, and bears oh my!) for help. I am still grappling with the fact that our "moral" candidate found nothing wrong with invading a country for as far as I can see no reason that can stand up to any scrutiny. What gives him the right to invade and destroy another country, especially without any support from the United Nations and only Britain on our side. For some reason, Blair is getting bashed for his choice to enter Iraq, but Bush is still getting praised for the same decision. Even if those Brits are uglier, at least they have a brain in their heads. I'm just grateful that I have had the chance even though I am only a high schooler to visit other countries and see how wrong our country is in this particular department. And although I am against both abortion and gay marriage, I don't see how someone could justify voting for this man on that basis alone. Congress makes the laws peoples! Thanks for letting me voice my opinion, it's carthartic.

#87

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 2:08pm

Princess doesn't like going into poltical discussions for a reason.

Anyway, does anyone else start hearing "Good Morning, Baltimore" when they read the title of this thread?

#88

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 2:11pm

princes.. i asked this before and you didn't respond s i will ask it again..

why do you like bush so much??

#89

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 2:18pm

She won't respond to that...never has...

#90

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 2:47pm

"What gives him the right to invade and destroy another country, especially without any support from the United Nations and only Britain on our side."

Bush has already explained that he wants to "spread Democracy" across the globe. He feels it is admirable to force our form of government on those countries that do not ask for it. Sort of like......a dictator! He wants to fight terrorism, but only in countries where he feels he has something to gain. Notice how he has completely ignored Colombia, which has kidnapped, tortured, and murdered Americans for 40 years (including friends of my parents) and many nations in Africa where, if you aren't a victim of terrorism, you are a victim of the lack of AIDS education. When questioned on these issues, Bush feels obligated to change the subject.

"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian

#91

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 3:34pm

I couldn't agree with Addy more. Yeah, I'm a Democrat, but does that mean I would want a Republican hating me simply for that fact? No. The fighting on this board is somewhat petty and can get rough when people are simply voicing their opinions . Make love, not war, and try to keep nasty comments to yourself. An intellectual discussion is one thing, but childish name calling can only cause factionalism in the BWW country.

#92

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 4:21pm

"especially without any support from the United Nations"

to HELL with the UN

#93

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 4:23pm

I wanted to post because I recall someone citing the Lawrence case of 2003. First of all, I wouldnt be too worried about it. (Especially when looking into Justice O'Connor's special concurrence, I think they can't backtrack on that one.)

Here is my spiel. I know there is a lot of anger here among the gay community and that makes sense to me. But, the thing is, it all seems to be pinned on President Bush. Senators Kerry and Edwards both stated they, too, were against gay marriage. The 11 state amendments that just passed, in addition to the other pre-existing ones, show that its not just the right-wingers against same-sex marriage. I understand this is frustrating but I do not presume to know exactly what it feels like.

This is the way I see it. Society right now, NOT just republicans, is uncomfortable with gay marriage. From a political standpoint, the best course of action would now be a push for more equal recognition of civil unions. People are far less threatened by unions. If unions can gain more legal credibility, it will be a step towards society getting more accustomed to the idea. This is going to have to be a gradual change in the very core of the collective societal mind. I know it doesnt sound fun, but I see it being the reality.

Another thought to consider: I think that as the younger generations become more mature and politically-minded, you will find a public more in support of these rights. You are going to find that young republicans are in support of civil unions, against amendments, etc. Of my well-informed Republican friends, none of them all close-minded as you would define it. Dont automatically consider republicans to be against you.

As AdGal stated in another thread, she learned that you must do much more than just vote if you truly want change. I know this is a sensitive subject and VERY personal for many of you, but I now believe that if you truly want this, it is now your job to mobilize. Get out there and do what you can to open minds. Don't yell, scream, and complain... present yourselves well.

Dont allow yourselves to be driven by anger. Use your passion to make a change. It is going to take steps, but it can be done.

Does this make sense? I tried to dissect it as a matter of political strategy.

"My friends have made the story of my life." -Helen Keller

#94

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 4:32pm

Unfortunately , we will be stepping backwards. The ammendments that were passed and constitutional ammendment proposed is not only against gay marriages but also against civil unions.

Karl Rove knows how to tap into fear and hatred and he used that to get Bush elected. The number one issue that Bush won in several key states was "morality". Morality meaning anti gay. Why do you think the anti gay marriage ammendment was brought up in Ohio. They knew it would be a key state and by turning the extreme side against gays they could insure a large turnout of narrow minded people. Even the Amish came to vote (usually against their religion) against gay marriages. Karl Rove and Bush took a page out of the nazi handbook, they found a common enemy and rallied their hate around that to insure victory. Nazis did it with the Jews, Rove/Bush did it with gays and lesbiians

#95

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 4:33pm

This has got to be the best thing I have read on this board all day. Please read this and take heart people... Saying that all republicans are the enemy is just as sweeping as saying that being gay is a choice... it just ain't necessarily so... there's so many shades to the discussion.

Another thought to consider: I think that as the younger generations become more mature and politically-minded, you will find a public more in support of these rights. You are going to find that young republicans are in support of civil unions, against amendments, etc. Of my well-informed Republican friends, none of them all close-minded as you would define it. Dont automatically consider republicans to be against you.

As AdGal stated in another thread, she learned that you must do much more than just vote if you truly want change. I know this is a sensitive subject and VERY personal for many of you, but I now believe that if you truly want this, it is now your job to mobilize. Get out there and do what you can to open minds. Don't yell, scream, and complain... present yourselves well.

Dont allow yourselves to be driven by anger. Use your passion to make a change. It is going to take steps, but it can be done.

Hamlet's father.

#96

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 4:48pm

Marc, I am not sure about the exact number, but I only remember hearing that one of the state amendments was against unions too. I am sorry I can't remember which state it was. But I know it wasnt ALL of them.
Also, though he hasnt been overly vocal about it, Pres Bush is actually for civil unions.

And, I dont believe morality means anti-gay. It could to some, but I dont think it applies to most. Morality I tend to equate with religion. And dont assume a religious person will be against you either. I am religious but I love some of my gay friends to pieces.
Plus, I wouldnt pin this whole amendment on Karl Rove. I would be more concerned with the large percentage of people that voted for it.

And thank you, CKeaton.
Humans are such complex creatures... It makes me sad to see such hostility over politics.

"My friends have made the story of my life." -Helen Keller

#97

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 4:51pm

"I would be more concerned with the large percentage of people that voted for it."

I am. Americans are hateful people.

#98

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 4:52pm

"to HELL with the UN"

This is the type of attitude that is so rampant and so wrong in our country. No matter what most American's think, you can't go around alienating everyone and still expect to be respected.

I like other countries, I like to travel in them, I like being a citizen of one of them, but I feel ashamed to say I'm an American when the our diplomatic leader, the president, treats them so poorly and with such little regard. Americans are not always right.

#99

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 5:00pm

Of all the places I've traveled, the place I was treated the worst was Vancouver. Go figure.

#100

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 5:16pm

Of course you're going to be treated badly if you have no respect for any other countries. Americans should be working hard to win back the faith of other countries and not be making enemies.

And what does Vancouver have to do with anything?

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