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#101

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 4:52pm

"to HELL with the UN"

This is the type of attitude that is so rampant and so wrong in our country. No matter what most American's think, you can't go around alienating everyone and still expect to be respected.

I like other countries, I like to travel in them, I like being a citizen of one of them, but I feel ashamed to say I'm an American when the our diplomatic leader, the president, treats them so poorly and with such little regard. Americans are not always right.

#102

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 5:00pm

Of all the places I've traveled, the place I was treated the worst was Vancouver. Go figure.

#103

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 5:16pm

Of course you're going to be treated badly if you have no respect for any other countries. Americans should be working hard to win back the faith of other countries and not be making enemies.

And what does Vancouver have to do with anything?

#104

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 5:17pm

you were talking about being treated badly in foreign countries because of being American.

I was treated badly in Vancouver, which last time I checked, was in a foreign country.

#105

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 5:20pm

Morality I tend to equate with religion.

See, that troubles me a bit. Do you mean that religion promotes morality? Is a type of morality? Or that the latter can't really exist without the former?

I've never been particularly religious, but I got my morals from my parents. It's called humanism- love, respect, and help your fellow man. That's my kind of religion.

#106

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 5:21pm

I am truly sorry you were treated badly. I was treated well the last time three times I travled abroad, including England last year.

Updated On: 11/3/04 at 05:21 PM

#107

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 5:27pm

Plum, I mean that when I see a poll about morality, I assume that the public is often associating religion with morality.
Which, religion does preach about morality, so that would make sense.

We dont need to get into what I consider morality... I just mean, when people say morality is something they look for in a candidate, they often mean they like the fact that the candidate is religious.

"My friends have made the story of my life." -Helen Keller

#108

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 5:49pm

"Pres Bush is actually for civil unions"

Not until just before the elections. And he is not for equal rights for civil unions, which makes them basically worthless and discriminatory.

"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian

#109

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 5:50pm

Sound bytes. It's all about the sound bytes. It never mattered whether they were true or accurate, they were repeated ad nauseum, and accepted as gospel. Bush painted a picture of himself as Mr. Morality sitting on the right hand of God. And I, for one, never bought it for a minute.

As a woman, the threat to reproductive choice freaks me out. While I believe it is too late in the game for abortion to be totally deep-sixed, economic constraints can certainly be implimented that will make abortions available to the wealthy, but much less available to the poor, working or not.

And as a person who is heavily involved in healthcare, the blockage of embryonic stem cell research is a huge concern. But I predict that that could fall by the wayside should a Bush, or a Chaney, or a Rove, suddenly develop something like diabetes or alzheimers.

And all those freakin' midwest soccer moms (there but for the grace of god...) who voted for Bush to keep their little darlin's safe, don't even realize what they have given away. And as mothers, how can women be party to depriving their children ...whatever their sexual orientation...the opportunity and the RIGHT to commit to a person they love and receive protection under the law. I don't get it. My kids happen to not be gay, or so it seems, but they could have been. It's all random. On a day when I have read much that makes me sad, perhaps the thing that hurt me the most was reading about how the parents of openly gay children voted for Bush. I am tearing up again as I type this. I just don't understand...

And Princess, Rodney, et al..I think therein lies the reason for much of the animosity aimed at you. Bush's win is personal to many people here. It's not so much about that "our guy lost" and "your guy won". Its that the man who won DIRECTLY threatens the futures of many of us. To consistently miss that point, or deliberately overlook it, speaks volumes...

Sueleen Gay: "Here you go, Bitch, now go make some fukcing lemonade." 10/28/10

#110

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 6:05pm

"And Princess, Rodney, et al..I think therein lies the reason for much of the animosity aimed at you. Bush's win is personal to many people here. It's not so much about that "our guy lost" and "your guy won". Its that the man who won DIRECTLY threatens the futures of many of us. To consistently miss that point, or deliberately overlook it, speaks volumes... "

Thank you, thats what I've been trying to say all day.

#111

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 6:16pm

iflit,

sorry I made ya tear up. it's actually killing me. I've been out for over a decade, my family has always said they've been supportive...and then, without a thought, they turn around and do this.

the thing that kills me the most is that they are the ONLY set of parents out of all of my gay and lesbian friends who voted for Bush. All the others, Republicans among them, voted for Kerry out of concern for their kids.

This is the first time I've been let down by my parents. And I'm 30. And it hurts. Bad.

"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."

#112

pink elephants on parade

Posted: 11/3/04 at 6:31pm

Tears. Round two.

Robbie...do they understand what they've done and how much they've hurt you by doing it? Is it possible that they got caught up in the "keep New York, where my son lives, safe from the terrorists" train of thought?

Sueleen Gay: "Here you go, Bitch, now go make some fukcing lemonade." 10/28/10

#113

musicalfandukie?

Posted: 11/4/04 at 5:02am

Personally I would love to hear more from musicalfandukie. As a gay man, it would be inconceivable to me to vote for a president who was working to change the Constitution, the central document of our nation's existence, to mandate unequal, second-class citizenship for me...not to mention the effect on my kids of not being protected by having married parents. musicalfandukie, what brought you to do so?

(Yes, I am WELL aware that Kerry also opposes same-sex marriage and this is utterly offensive to me... However, the extremity of changing the Constitution, to me, makes it clear which candidate is more of a threat to equal rights.)

#114

musicalfandukie?

Posted: 11/4/04 at 5:03am

#115

musicalfandukie?

Posted: 11/4/04 at 5:07am

I can NOT stand MimiChika

#116

random

Posted: 11/4/04 at 8:03am

Hi all --

I hadn't yet joined this particular thread, but I have been on other threads around BWW for the past week and a half or so.

Anyway, I am alternately heartened and saddened by some of the rhetoric running around these parts. I am heartened because it seems like there are many here who are trying to sort through their complicated and upsetting response to the election results (a response I share) by openly sharing their thoughts and feelings without dumping on others. But I am saddened to see that it is not always the case.

Believe me, I find it difficult to reconcile myself to the reality that we are living in a country that contains so very many millions of people who feel as they do about banning gay marriage, and that they organize their very lives around it in some cases. That we live in a country that contains many millions of people who seem to disconnect themselves from what seems to me a very obvious point: the administration they are entrusting with the stewardship of this country and the leadership of most of the free world is doing very little to actually make their lives better or safer. That we live in a country that contains many millions of people who have elected Senators who have said things like "I don't read the news" or that "single women should not be allowed to teach children."

And yet, we do live in that country. As tempted as I am to advocate total secession of the Blue States from the Red States, I understand that we are all Americans, and there must be a way to communicate with each other and try to find common ground.

That doesn't mean we have to usurp our principles or ideals in favor of some moral or ethical compromise, or suppress who we are, or lie down and take it, but there seems to be very little possibility of bridging this enormous gap between our two Americas if we don't try to communicate more civilly about where our disagreements lie.

Don't get me wrong from what may seem like my somewhat conciliatory tone: I am deeply angry and upset about what I've learned about our country in the last 24 hours. But I am trying to channel that in a productive and hopefully positive manner.

I have to have faith (there's that word, which even secularists like myself can use) that our higher natures can find some way to transcend these very real and very deep divides between us.

And I have to have hope, with very very very little evidence, that during these next four years Bush and company won't have the opportunity to make things a whole lot worse before they get better.

We shall see.

Sorry I rambled so much. Sorry if you felt lectured.

Take care --

Anthony

#117

random

Posted: 11/4/04 at 10:12am

Hopefully everyone here knows that I am one of the young Republicans who completely disagrees with my parties' position on Gay Marriage/Civil Unions. With that being said, I have faith that there will be no amendment. Do you honestly think that it is possible to pass a constitutional amendment in this environment? I sincerely doubt it.

Both candidates took positions only to woo voters. On the Today Show this morning, a Newsweek reporter who was with the Kerry campaign related the story of Kerry being advised by the DNC "Clinton-istas" to take a stronger stance against homosexual unions. It seems that Kerry declined, (to the dismay of his party, and a rare moment of political courage) but in reality it shows the shrewdness of the political machine.

W. knew that he had to come out strongly against gay unions to woo voters in the red states, so did Kerry's campaign. It's politics, plain and simple. I hope you will see an administration that works to unify in the last 4 years. I really do.

Hamlet's father.

#118

random

Posted: 11/4/04 at 10:16am

And I hope we find the citizens of this great country working to unify and build toward OUR future, as well. The politicians cannot do it all for us. We must do it for ourselves.

Actions count. Time to roll up our sleeves and get to work.

"Two drifters off to see the world. There's such a lot of world to see. . ."

#119

random

Posted: 11/4/04 at 10:18am

"And as a person who is heavily involved in healthcare, the blockage of embryonic stem cell research is a huge concern. But I predict that that could fall by the wayside should a Bush, or a Chaney, or a Rove, suddenly develop something like diabetes or alzheimers."

Absolutely right. Do you think Nancy Reagan would have campaigned for it if it wouldn't have helped someone close to her? No way in hell.

Have I ever shown you my Shattered Dreams box? It's in my Disappointment Closet. - Marge Simpson

#120

random

Posted: 11/4/04 at 10:33am

This is the kind of stuff (copied from a conservative blog) that makes me want to run to Vulgaria and hide like Jeremy and Jemima Potts:

""If anyone needs to work to “bring the country together” it’s those on the left who have divided it so badly. Those who sought to destroy this great man should get down upon their knees and beg the victors for mercy. And maybe, just maybe, we’ll let a few of them linger on for the simple reason that they amuse us. My life’s goal is to see the Democratic Party virtually obliterated and left as a rump of people like Stephanie Herseth who both mostly agree with us anyways and are easy on the eyes. That’s the future of the Democratic Party: providing Republicans with a number of cute (but not that bright) comfort women."

Sheesh. Well, I guess Rumsfeld does resemble the Child Catcher a little...

#121

random

Posted: 11/4/04 at 10:37am

This is what I am talking about. This is what life was like under Reagan, it suddenly became not only comfortable for people to write and speak in that way, but many people took the fact that Republicans were in power as carte blanche for that kind of thing. I'm a first amendment absolutist, but I hate living through times in which this sort of regressive lack of thought goes above-ground and thrives.

Twitter @NamoInExile Instagram none

#122

random

Posted: 11/4/04 at 2:07pm

musicalfandukie..you need to earn respect around here like Papa and CKeaton have. They're intelligent men and can back up their views...unlike what I've read in your post that sounds like you ARE in the 5th grade.

no one should have to earn respect. everyone should be treated with the same respect you want for yourself. and i sound like i'm in 5th grade how?? because i voted for someone that most people on this board didn't??...well if that makes me in 5th grade i am glade to be in it.

Updated On: 11/4/04 at 02:07 PM

#123

random

Posted: 11/4/04 at 5:43pm

Beg the victors for mercy?

Kiss. My. Ass.

Why does "Middle America" (a false construct, but whatever) have a monopoly on being American? Whatever happened to the melting pot? I've lived here for more than 10 years, I've never missed an election, and I speak better English than the President. I'm an American, too.

Why does this "Middle America" have a monopoly on morality, too? I don't take my positions out of amorality or a lack of values. My values are American, and they are real, and just because they don't match up with your church doesn't make them the work of the Devil.

America was founded at least partly by people seeking to escape sectarian persecution. It was founded on a base of pluralism. Last time I checked, it wasn't the government's job to push the agenda of one branch of religion.

In my opinion, every time your religion splits you off from others, teaches you to hate them or see them as the "other," something is wrong with your religion. You want to serve God? Help your fellow man. Stop trying to find reasons to hate people.

These newfangled notions like giving people equal rights under the law? Not attacking other countries unless provoked? Separating church from state? They aren't new at all; they're ancient. They're as interwoven into the fabric of our history as democracy itself.

So when you talk to me, the lefty bleeding-heart college Jew, don't you dare call me anything other than American. I am American, and I am proud, and I'm as moral as you could ever hope to be.

Updated On: 11/4/04 at 05:43 PM

#124

random

Posted: 11/4/04 at 5:45pm

not even "cutie pie"?

r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.

...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty

pray to st. jude

i'm a sonic reducer

he was the gimmicky sort

fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective

Updated On: 11/4/04 at 05:45 PM

#125

random

Posted: 11/4/04 at 5:50pm

what about "pumpkin"?

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