Hillary Clinton on LGBT Teens- Page 4

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 1/30/08 at 10:37pm

We talked about transsexuals in my Human Sexuality class today.

Mood: (Still) Ambivalent (on Obama and Clinton)

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 2:39am

Oh man, the trans debate... I have such mixed feelings about that. I mean, people can do whatever they like but I honestly don't think people should be allowed to do it until they're at least like... 23. It's just an enormous, enormous decision to make and I've known some younger people who transitioned at a young age. It's like having a baby or some such thing...

I would probably be personally uncomfortable with dating a trans person same as I would be uncomfortable with dating a girl. That's just not what I'm into. I somehow have a hard time believing that women will ever be able to grow penises, even with stem cells :P

RobbieJ, I didn't want to open up the DoMa and DaDt can of worms but so many people feel the same way you do. Total betrayal. For the record, I believe Hillary Clinton does not support the full repeal of DoMa while Obama does.


"Absolutely. Positively. Yes, I do. And Obama's betrayal of us for the votes of bigots--along with Obama's support for the evils of the credit-card industry--are the two reasons why I am still holding out for Al Gore."

I have to ask--how long have you felt this way about him? I mean, the guy has been pro gay consistently, even when it wasn't politically expedient. He's been pro gay when it was potentially extremely harmful. Is it because of this one incident? Because he's black and because of black homophobia? Just a gut feeling? I just don't understand why you feel this way. The Clintons play us for votes, Edwards doesn't get us (but his wife likes us), whereas Obama calls us his "gay brothers and sisters".

I'm sorry I was a toddler during the 80s, but it's 2008 now. Different world.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 8:08am

I'm glad it's a different world now.

And I'm glad that Barack Obama will be practicing a different politics if he becomes president.

And I'm glad President Obama won't betray us to placate the black homophobes the way President Clinton was forced to placate the white homopbobes.

And I promise not to say I told you so if he does.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 9:30am

I'm pretty sure that if elected either will placate whatever homophobes s/he needs to placate.

[lildogs]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 9:43am

Oh PJ! I missed the manhunt joke...but isn't all of manhunt a joke?

Here's the thing too: I'd like to know who came up with the idea for both DADT and DOMA, cause they sound like marketing slogans, which would lead me to believe they were Hillary's idea...of course we'll not know until 2012. Cause she won't let us see her papers--what ya hidin' girl?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 9:53am

Same thing Bush is hiding by not letting us see his papers?

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 11:04am

I believe that Hillary will support 100% gay rights whether or not she can say so now. I tend to believe that the same can be said of Obama.

"I somehow have a hard time believing that women will ever be able to grow penises, even with stem cells "

It's the same body part when we are in the womb. Thus, with hormones and surgery, it already can transition to some extent. But, it's nowhere as "easy" as transitioning a man to a woman. So, it is believed that stem cell research would be able to aid in that process.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 11:05am

I believe that Hillary will support 100% gay rights whether or not she can say so now. I tend to believe that the same can be said of Obama.

Why? And what "gay rights" do you think they will support 100%? This is a serious question. I'm not being snarky.
Updated On: 1/31/08 at 11:05 AM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 11:10am

Just how big will a stem-cell penis be?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 11:10am

The right to feel your pain when your boyfriend cheats on you, silly.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 11:11am

I don't believe that they will halt progress. I'm not saying that I believe they will get in there and fight for our rights loud and proud. If anything, I think we all learned how that can backfire--why DADT came to be. I believe they care deeply about civil rights and include us in that.

They certainly won't rail against us like the GOP has and will.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 11:13am

I'm sorry, PJ, but that is TMI. Please take that conversation to the editorial section of Inches magazine.

Mood: jokey

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 11:16am

I'm not saying that I believe they will get in there and fight for our rights loud and proud.

Well, the 100% did sound kind of definitive.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 11:17am

JRB, the situation you're describing is like when your best friend in high school who resides with you in the middle clique starts getting some attention from a really popular girl in the upper clique and she tells you, "Okay, just always remember, if Jennifer DeNuccio starts making fun of you and I'm there, I really think what she's saying is mean and you're my best friend even if I don't say anything. Okay?"

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 11:19am

Jennifer DeNuccio is a SLUT!

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 11:22am

Oh Lord, I am in no mood to have my posts picked apart and analyzed. I have expressed what I think. Leave it at that.

Mood: exhausted as I am in the process of moving, so give me a muthaeffing break.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 11:29am

Namo, I understand what you are saying. And I have wrestled with whether or not I can vote for someone who says they don't support our right to marriage even if I think that's just the rhetoric they have to speak--with the possibility that it will all end like with Clinton: compromises and seemingly little progress. Sometimes I am all or nothing minded about these issues. Sometimes, I remember that we have to take baby steps. It's very frustrating as I believe we deserve nothing less than full equal rights, but I have to respect the process.

All of that in mind, I have come to the decision that I can vote for Obama or Hillary or Edwards, believing what I have already posted. And, believing that they are infinitely better for us than the GOP.

With Gore's recent comments, he would clearly be my first choice if he were running.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 11:32am

Jerby, I'm not picking apart your posts. It's really not my fault that they don't hold up to any sort of critical analysis. I'm sure you'll try to tell me that it's a lack of comprehension of my part, but it's not. You said you were 100% sure she would support gay rights, but when the thread was pulled at even slightly, it changed to well, at least she won't take anything away. They're your words, not mine.

With people trying to figure out which candidate is right for them, I think it's important to back up claims like "I believe that Hillary will support 100% gay rights whether or not she can say so now."

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 11:40am

No. I haven't been changing my arguments with you. I have only been changing the way to express them to you, especially since you seem to be so confounded by bisexuality and religion. Instead of repeating myself, I try to find a new way to explain what I am thinking. And sometimes that's not easy to do when the topic is particularly complex. Especially, when you pick and prod and twist what I have said to try to "win" an argument.

My stance here hasn't changed, I just realized I didn't word myself very well. And frankly, I'm too tired to fight with you. I don't give a flying crap what you think of me or my views or how I express myself. You already know everything, so why should I think I could enlighten you about anything?

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 11:59am

Oh, stop it. Just because I challenge you when you speak in definitive statements doesn't mean I'm trying to win something. I will just remember from know on that when you believe something, that makes it so.

And for what it's worth, I did want you to enligthen me on how it was 100% assured Clinton was going to turn into a champion of "gay rights" when she took office, but you couldn't.

So, I'm sorry you're tired and I'm sorry you choose the wrong words to make your points, but again, that's really not my fault.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 12:05pm

How can I prove an opinion? I watch the woman speak on LGBT issues, and I sense something that tells me she is on our side. I look at her voting record on the issues. I look at what she has said and says she will do for us. The only thing I find questionable with her is what she SAYS is her stance on gay marriage. And, I do not believe she really feels that way. I think she and Obama and Edwards know they have to say what they have been saying to get elected. It's just the cold hard truth of this nation right now.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 12:08pm

And as for your other BS. I don't come to BWW to lay out definitive statements on issues. I come here to discuss issues. I learn from those discussions. I learn that I have to refine my thoughts when I learn something new or when I realize I haven't made myself clear. And most of the time, there are a many tangents within those discussions. ESPECIALLY when they are with you.

I try to make definitive statements in my videos. If I fail to do so there, please by all means attack that.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 12:28pm

And as for your other BS. I don't come to BWW to lay out definitive statements on issues

I never accused you of that, or implying that was your MO, but when you say you believe something 100%, that seems to indicate a pretty definitive stance. I'm sorry that my literal interpretation of 100% upsets you, but ultimately I don't know what to do with that (much like I didn't know what to do with the fact you didn't know what agnostic means).

I try to make definitive statements in my videos.

Oh dear. I guess try is the operative word, though. For what it's worth, I did watch your gays and Christian video, but I didn't understand why it took you ten minutes to say essentially, "You can believe whatever you want as long as you twist the interpretation to suit your means." Discounting the whole of the Old Testament, which is essentially what you're doing isn't really different from most moderate Christians, both those that condone homosexuality and those who don't. Hell, a Jew can be a Christian if they interpret the bible a certain way.

Jerby, the fact remains that you make these "bold" definitive statements that you can't back up. And when you can't back them up you try and put the burden on the person questioning you, getting more and more defensive. That's fine, but it doesn't really make for sound discussion, or a sound belief system for that matter.

[lildogs]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 12:35pm

"Same thing Bush is hiding by not letting us see his papers?"

Not the best company to be in, methinks.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/31/08 at 12:41pm

I believe that Obama and Clinton include us 100% when they think of civil rights. And at worst, if that % is wrong, they will not halt progress. Got it?

And, as many people in that religion thread posted--I'm not the only person who misuses the term agnostic. So, while I will agree that I and many others have not used that term correctly by current dictionary definitions, I am not off my rocker for having used it that way as MANY people do. Very rare does anyone say Deist.

The problem with you on that issue is that you can not stand it that I am ok with doubt. Doubt used to be a sign of wisdom, but now it is regarded as a weakness. You seem to believe the latter given your comments in that thread. I believe it's just as arrogant to blast people with "There is no God--you are wrong!" as it is to blast people with "There is a God--you are wrong!" I see nothing wrong with "Maybe".

"but I didn't understand why it took you ten minutes to say essentially, "You can believe whatever you want as long as you twist the interpretation to suit your means.""

I was providing evidence for alternative interpretations as well as the huge possibility that the English Bibles have corrupt translations and/or biased interpretations. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

And I created the video to address what I consider to be the biggest obstacle in our getting equal rights in this country--the religious right. Well, I believe there is a religious left. I believe that if you are going to be a Christian, there is another view on the subject. And that view doesn't condemn gays. Why is that so difficult to grasp?

And why is ANY of this so worthy of your antagonism? If I am such a horrible debater or speaker--if I am such a utter failure at communicating these issues, why do you even bother with me?

The fact is that a lot of people have been enthusiastic about those political videos. And the writer of What The Bible Really Says About Homosexuality saw the video himself and was quite fond of it.