Homophobia as Indicator of Latent Homosexuality- Page 5

[robbiej]

Posted: 10/6/04 at 11:59am

What's so fascinating is the youth of America. My niece and nephew always refer to how much 'gay' one of their friends is. And about themselves. My niece is 17 and my nephew is 15. I'm completely flummoxed by it. My nephew made a comment in front of me about how hot a guy is. But right now, he has a girlfriend and (much to my chagrin) they're having sex.

Kids today!

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 10/6/04 at 12:01pm

Why can't they be like we were
Perfect in every way......

[midtowngym]

Posted: 10/6/04 at 12:10pm

You must be a riot to go out with Margo. Peppering your conversations with movie and theater gems!

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 10/6/04 at 12:12pm

I think I took an extra "show queen" pill this morning or something.....

[son_of_a_gunn_25]

Posted: 10/6/04 at 12:15pm

Robbit, that is a habit I have from growing up in a very Republican area where being gay was one of the worst things. You could not even acknowledge the beauty of the male form. Everyone always said "I don't know I am straight." As I have gotten more and more gay friends and become comfortable with their sexuality I have been able to find the beauty in the male form. There is beauty in everything. Seeing beauty in someone and being sexually attracted to them aren't necessarily the same thing. People don't seem to understand that though.

[son_of_a_gunn_25]

Posted: 10/6/04 at 12:16pm

(That was supposed to be addressed to Robbiej, I don't know how I came up with Robbit, but it is funny so I am leaving it.)

[Auggie27]

Posted: 10/6/04 at 1:05pm

Good grief, Margo, did you pull that up from memory? Was the DVD of the film on hand? Did you play the role iin college? Whatever the reason, it provokes a kind of nostalgia.

I watch the video every now and then, since a lot of the BOYS first act is startlingly accurate. Not PC, but honest. Forget act two self-loathing "games" stuff (stolen from Albee), which is far from empowering. But many of the character issues -- overspending, overdrinking and drugging, narcissistic overobsession with one's stock in the Manhattan scene -- are out of date only in terms of trappings. Some details are quaint -- like it being "square" to drink beer. The play didn't see post-Stonewall scene on the horizon, when beer replaced nelly drinks. Or the post- post Stonewall America when nelly drinks like cosmos replaced beer. Everything old is new again. Bring back hankies in back pockets.

[robbiej]

Posted: 10/6/04 at 1:28pm

Now, I love and bow to Margo as much as the next queen, but a quote from BYE BYE BIRDIE is kids stuff (pun intended).

No one even commented on my COMPANY quote in my Cheyenne Jackson thread last week!!!

And it was good!

[popcultureboy]

Posted: 10/6/04 at 1:29pm

That's because Company is kids stuff, too. Now get over yourself

[robbiej]

Posted: 10/6/04 at 1:32pm

don't make me hit you.

[popcultureboy]

Posted: 10/6/04 at 1:37pm

It's kind of what I was hoping for.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 10/6/04 at 3:15pm

A few years back I invited a bunch of friends over to watch "Boys In The Band" including three or four who were in their early 20s who had never seen it (which had been the impetous for my having them over to see it). They didn't know anything about the criticisms and controversy over the film in the gay community (that some felt it was an inaccurate, homophobic, self-loathing, self-hating piece of propaganda etc. etc...). Well, they all absolutely loved it, found it to be a frighteningly accurate depiction of the dynamics often found in groups of gay men (including their own little group) and felt like it could have been written yesterday. When I explained the various controversies surrounding the film, they didn't agree at all, finding the film to be very realistic and true to their own lives (except for the "grinning corpse" line at the end, which we all agreed was a bit much).

Here was a bunch of 20-somethings, who had been out and proud since junior high (one came out to his family when he was 12), who had grown up in New York and never felt the need to be closeted, knew nothing about feeling shame or self-loathing or anything negative about their sexuality and yet, they firmly identified with the pre-Stonewall characters of "Boys In The Band" and found that the campiness, the cattiness, and the casual cruelty resonated with them as something they recognized in themselves, their circle of friends and in the community in general. Mind you, I think they identified much more with Act One than with Act Two, but nevertheless they found the entire film overall to still be worthwhile.

Updated On: 10/6/04 at 03:15 PM

[Auggie27]

Posted: 10/6/04 at 4:28pm

Margo and Beaver: I'm glad we've landed on this; your posts are revelatory, a bit of anthropology worth pondering. Though your evidence is anectodal, it is powerful. I know that the Off-broadway revival brought up some of these issues, but as a topic -- the (timeless) universality of the experience in the play -- it's considered particularly dangerous to discuss ex-cathedra, out of the community.

I get it. The dangers. In an era when the religious right has found nefarious allies in Washington, and homosexualty is being debated as a "choice," or "a lifestyle" and once again, shockingly, as a moral failing ... well, any realistic talk about specific cultural mores, behavior, values stands to fall into the hands of people who'd use it against all gay people. BOYS IN THE BAND is a lightning rod, always worth revisiting. But keep (homophobic) straight people away from the post-viewing chats.

[Guido Contini]

Posted: 10/6/04 at 5:12pm

"do have a question for our straight friends in this gay-straight alliance: why do straight men have such a difficult time acknowledging that another man is attractive? Straight women always talk about beauty in other women. Is it that by admitting another guy is good-looking you fear being labelled gay, or is it that you really don't see it?"

Ok...even though I've professed my "straightness" here a million times, I'm only adamant about it because I've done the bi-sexual thing one time and that was all I needed to prove to me where my actual sexual attraction lies.

I know there will be times when I have "moments of weakness" as it were. I won't lie about my "man-crushes". I have lots of them. Some of them on people I actually know, and some on famous professional types. So to address the question in quotes up there...not all "straight" men have problems admitting when a man is attractive. I happen to know alot of men will think it, but never say it aloud. It's a shame,I know.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 10/6/04 at 5:15pm

Another point about the film. I think that young men who've never had to struggle with self-acceptance and loving themselves as gay men have a much easier time embracing the film -- taking in those aspects of it that they identify with and still find valid today while looking at some of the darker parts of the film as a learning experience, appreciating how far we have come as gay men and how much easier it is to be out and proud now than it was when the film was made. For older gay men who came of age pre-Stonewall, the film can open up old wounds that, in some cases haven't healed competely -- memories of painful struggles with themselves, their families, their friends -- and it causes them to be deeply resentful of it. I think that the whole "why do we hate ourselves so much" vibe that permeates some of the characters is an embarassment to a certain generation of gay men which would explain the intensely negative reaction that this film still gets in certain circles. The self-hatred depicted still hits a nerve with many of those older men in a way it simply doesn't with so many younger comparatively well-adjusted gay men who see the movie now.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 10/6/04 at 5:16pm

Guido,

Keep talking. That martini date is sounding more and more promising.

[Guido Contini]

Posted: 10/6/04 at 5:18pm

heh, I'm sure it does honey....I'm sure it does.

[midtowngym]

Posted: 10/6/04 at 5:35pm

I'm in the middle-in both age and experience. Too young for Stonewall self-loathing, too old for the serene 21st century experience of proudly buying gay magazines at Borders. My generation was ANGRY. Queer Nation, ACTUP, WHAM! and so many other acronyms. I thank the Stonewall generation for giving birth to the movement, as I hope 21 year olds will thank my generation for fighting to the death (literally.)

[Guido Contini]

Posted: 10/6/04 at 5:45pm

I'm sure they will, midtown.

[Marquise]

Posted: 10/6/04 at 6:03pm

i fit in with midtown too....ive learned alot from the older gay generation. but getting back to this homophobia thing, do you know how many alleged "straight boys" i've had? they come off like: "nah, man i don't understand how another guy can go to bed with another..blah, blah, blah...i would never...yadda, yadda, yadda"and then BAM! i'd get them in a certain situation and they let their guard down and then they go from "straight" to "straight to bed". then i toss them back to their girlfriends.

[Guido Contini]

Posted: 10/6/04 at 6:11pm

Marq, I got that gay pimp vibe from you....you go boy!

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 10/7/04 at 3:44am

It's so freaking textbook the whole closet. That's probably why many of us are so impatient and/or bored with the "straight" boys on the board and in life. (Not the real straight boys--the "straight boys").

It's like--ok sure you're straight. See ya in a year. In a year---PROUD MARY.

Been there. Done that. Do you know how many "straight" boy's t-shirts I got??

[Marquise]

Posted: 10/7/04 at 5:27am

i know beaverhausen, i know, but what can i say? i love the challenge. and part of the fun is getting there. . .

[Zola Q. LaPlaya]

Posted: 10/7/04 at 7:15am

It's all in the journey.

[MyNameHere]

Posted: 10/7/04 at 7:12pm

Gays just think everyopne is gay.

Haha. I couldn't resist.. especially with the topis title. hehe


~Reese