I'm Not Sure What I Think About This...& Biggest Threadjack EVER

[lildogs]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 10:28am

I'm actually tempted to side with The Man on this one.

Praying Muslims Updated On: 11/4/05 at 10:28 AM

[Patronus]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 10:40am

That isn't the most discriptive article I've ever read.

How far away were these pipes? Was it clear that it was a restricted area? Were there any non Muslims near by that weren't trailed and escorted to their car? Were the seats an upgrade? How did the Giants shut out the Redskins?

All questions that I'd need to have answered before really forming an opinion, but if they were in a restricted area, praying around an airduct in a building that the President I'd say it at least warrants some questioning.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 11:14am

and even more importantly....are there 5 specific times when they have to pray? If not, then to avoid conflict, do it at other times during the day.

I'm sure if a group of christians got out of their seats and did the same thing, they would have responded the same.

Heck, if a group of anyone congregated around an airduct, the day a president is there would look suspicious.

[Lizziemonster]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 11:25am

yes there are specific times they pray...would you leave your seat at a football game to pray if you could do it later?

[lildogs]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 11:31am

It seems a little misguided of them to do that when they certainly had to have known the Prez was there...if he hadn't been there. It's hardly criminal, but it is suspicious.

[Di2]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 11:32am

Getting out of your seats to pray during a football game??

What?? That is odd behavior, period.

You should handle your private business in private and if you are questioned for it, after all of the trouble we have had in this country, too bad.

Doing something like that is going to draw attention.

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 11:32am

I believe not only are there specific times they pray, but they have to be facing a certain direction when they do (I think it's towards Mecca). I don't know if you have to be in a certain location to pray or why they chose a secluded air duct, but I'd imagine it's because it was the only private place the group of them could be in.

Either way, I agree with Elphaba - a group of anyone near the main air duct would arouse suspicion.

[Plum]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 11:36am

Yes, the Muslim prayer times are very specific- if I'm remembering correctly, there's one around dawn, one around noon, one in mid-afternoon, one at sunset, and one in the everning. And from what I've read the men were annoyed but not completely outraged at what happened. It was unpleasant but not an atrocity. So I'll file this under "**** happens" and move on.

[Lizziemonster]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 12:35pm

I agree with you Plum, they were doing what they had to do as part of thier beliefs and perhaps it wasn't the best palce to choose but no harm done

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 12:49pm

Di2, leaving to pray during a football game is NOT that weird. I've seen people stopping and praying in airport parking lots (in January) and on the sidewalks in New York, so going off into the walkways around a football stadium is not odd.

And it's not about "drawing attention"; they have to stop whatever they are doing and pray, regardless of where they are. It's an aspect of their religious practice. Would you tell a Jewish man to take off his yarmulke because it draws too much attention, and should only be done in private?


I think it's unfortunate that this had to happen to the individuals involved and do think racial profiling was involved, but these are the times we live in.

[Di2]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 1:38pm

Orangeskittles..."Would you tell a Jewish man to take off his yarmulke because it draws too much attention, and should only be done in private."

Well, of course not. That doesn't draw attention at all and you know it. Stop being ridiculous.

In all of my years attending sporting events, I have never seen anyone leave their seats (and in a group, mind you)in order to pray. EVER.

That will draw attention (good or bad) no matter where you are.
If a group did that on the street or in a parking lot, it would still draw attention. Maybe not from you but from others.

Don't put racial connotations in my mouth, please.

I feel badly that they were questioned but the security guards did the right thing.

Better to be safe than sorry.


Updated On: 11/3/05 at 01:38 PM

[Elphaba]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 2:47pm

gee lizzie, NOT being Muslim, I certainly wouldn't know.............which is why I asked...and if you have a problem when people ask questions, go elsewhere....it's how we learn.

you are still a newbie, play nicely... reputation is everything here.

Updated On: 11/3/05 at 02:47 PM

[Elphaba]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 2:52pm

wow Di2,
In all of my years attending sporting events, I have never seen anyone leave their seats (and in a group, mind you)in order to pray. EVER.


those must be some great seats where you can see everyone, and what they are doing in a football, baseball, soccer, or basketball stadium.........I usually only see those right around me.....please give me the name of your eye-doctor, as maybe I can get better vision.......

[Di2]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 3:03pm

Elphaba:
I am only talking about my experiences at games, ok. I am not speaking for anyone else.

Are you always so sarcastic?? Did you really need to post a rude sarcastic comment after my post? What is the purpose of that aside from making people not want to join in on the conversation.

In my opinion, this would draw attention and it would definitately make me nervous. Not all of us are used to seeing Muslims pray in public.

ok?

One last thing...how was "Lizzie" not playing nicely? She said nothing but her own opinion in her post. Leave her alone.
Updated On: 11/3/05 at 03:03 PM

[lildogs]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 3:07pm

But orange, wearing a yarmulke or cleric's clothes or a nun's habit or a cheese wedge on your head isn't the same as praying, but i get your point. I have seen Orthodox Jews and Muslims pray in busy airports. But these guys should be on point and maybe find a better place and it's not like they thought, "Oh no! I forgot we pray every day at 5:00!" I mean, I don't make out with my bf in a place where we're likely to get our as*es kicked. When you're a target of scorn and suspicion, you have to pick your battles. It's a sad reality, but it is a reality.

[Pinguin]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 3:14pm

While I have trouble saying that racial profiling had NOTHING to do with it, it's hard to say that there would be any other option than to do something when a group of people are huddled around in an area that the public doesn't go to, in front of an important air duct like that, when the president is in attendance...I think they were totally justified.

[Di2]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 3:23pm

lildogs and pinguin..

I agree 100%..

anyone can do anything they want (it's a free country, thank God) but you have to be careful where and when you do things..

[Elphaba]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 3:29pm

so Di2, back to my question........at any sporting event you can see what EVERYONE is doing all the time? Isn't THAT special!

If you make sweeping generalizations, do expect people to call you on it.

NO ONE at any sporting event can see all people and what they are doing ALL of the time, and to say you can, makes you the only person on the planet who apparently can, AND.......I want whatever you are eating, or using to see, so that I can too!

you made a ridiculous statement, and someone, me...called you on it......deal with it....or maybe next time think before you make a statement that is clearly impossible

oh, and darlin, you have not EVEN seen me rude and sarcastic.......I just asked questions

Updated On: 11/3/05 at 03:29 PM

[yodamarie78]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 3:38pm

"Not all of us are used to seeing Muslims pray in public."

Which is precisly the sort of sentiment that makes them cry racial profiling. It is true that any group of people gathered near an air duct, especially when the president is there, needs to be investigated. However, I'm not convinced that it was necessary to make the group switch seats and to escort them out after the game. I suspect that if it had been a group of white people they would have been questioned and then sent back to their seats after it became clear that they weren't up to anything.

[Di2]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 3:40pm

Elphaba:

Did you NOT read my clarification?

I will repost what I just said..

"Elphaba:
I am only talking about my experiences at games, ok? I am not speaking for anyone else."

I made no generalization. I spoke only about my experiences.

And you most certainly did not "just ask questions." You were blatantly rude and sarcastic. And that was uncalled for.

Please allow me to post my opinions and not be attacked.






Updated On: 11/3/05 at 03:40 PM

[Elphaba]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 4:42pm

so, by some miracle of miracles you can see every person in a stadium all 20,000, or 80, 000 or 100,000 of them and what they are doing? You can see into every nook and crannie of that stadium?

please you certainly dish it out on BWW, but you can't take it.
If you can't play with the big dogs, STAY ON THE DARN PORCH.

You refuse to say 'Yes I can see everyone at a stadium, and what they are doing" because even you know how ridiculous and impossible that is......hence you know your statement is not at all possibe.....

please, Zzzz

Updated On: 11/3/05 at 04:42 PM

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 4:51pm

Di..

Where are you from? There is large muslim population where I'm from and it's common to see praying everywhere. On the street, here at the school I work in, in the mall, everywhere. So the simple act of leaving your seat and praying at a sporting game is not at all unusual.

[Plum]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 5:00pm

Di2, this is America, not France. We encourage religious tolerance by letting everyone practice, not by making everyone hide their practices. Your comments are redolent of the old "you have to be like me to be American" attitude, but I hope that's not what you were really saying.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 5:06pm

I'm guessing she may live in an area that's not very diverse.

[Plum]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 5:18pm

Well, Giants Stadium isn't far from Paterson, a very heavily Muslim town. You can't expect everyone who doesn't fit the Anglo "ideal" to hide because they make the corn-fed among us nervous.