Imagine No Religion- Page 3

[KelRel]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 10:03pm

Ok, so I have to add my two cents to the matter. I'm prefacing this with the fact that my baby has been kicking me all night long for the past 4 nights so I am pretty tired and may not be entirely coherent.

Anyways, I think that extremist organized religion is a problem. At by extremist I mean any group willfully following a leadership that preaches/teaches intolerance. In this I am including my own religious background. I have left two churches because of their intolerant beliefs and have finally found a church "home" that welcomes everyone and doesn't turn people away because of their lifestyles or sins. They recognize that, according to our faith, we are all sinners and that sin isn't ranked. In God's eyes you are just as guilty when you steal a piece of candy from the store as someone is who murdered someone. Sin is sin and we are all guilty so who are we to condemn other people? It is a refreshing take on things. So is the world worse off because of a church like this? I'd like to think not, but it some people's eyes it might be. Who knows. I just think that places like this are rarely discussed or represented so "organized religion" gets pigeon holed into a bad thing because the more "outspoken" groups.

Anyways, that's just my take on things. Sorry if I rambled, as I said I'm pretty tired.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 10:06pm

"Some people use religion to do good loving things for other people as well. The vagueness and reliance on something greater than humans leads them to act in favor of the whole."

And are you saying that people wouldn't DO GOOD without religion? That's pretty sad. PatiB, I say put your faith in your own humanity and your ability to make the world a better place NOW for yourself and others because it is the right thing to do, not because you get brownie points that you may or may not be able to cash in later.

We all would love to believe that we survive death. But the odds are pretty high that we do not.

[GuitarGirl]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 10:13pm

Religion helps people when they need something to believe in. I don't think that they should pushing their faith on others: whoever wants to believe believes, and whoever doesn't won't.

I can see a world without religion if I think about it, but not without something to believe in, including life after death. I don't think that religion is a bad thing in and of itself, but people start to corrupt it's purpose (for money, land, power, ect.). That is probably because a lot is left open to interpretation, concerning any religion.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 10:14pm

"Anyways, I think that extremist organized religion is a problem. At by extremist I mean any group willfully following a leadership that preaches/teaches intolerance. "


That's all I'm saying as well. I just think you type better than me. And you are preggers!

Two thumbs up!





"In God's eyes you are just as guilty when you steal a piece of candy from the store as someone is who murdered someone. "

That's the whole plot of Le Miz.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 10:31pm

"They recognize that, according to our faith, we are all sinners and that sin isn't ranked. In God's eyes you are just as guilty when you steal a piece of candy from the store as someone is who murdered someone. Sin is sin and we are all guilty ..."

But if you can't see there's a big difference between stealing a piece of candy and murdering somebody, then I think something's really drastically wrong.

"I can see a world without religion if I think about it, but not without something to believe in, including life after death."

But you're not believing in life after death so much as hoping (against hope, as it turns out) that you will survive death. I don't understand how knowing, KNOWING, that this life is your one and only time around the track wouldn't motivate you to live the best life you can and to try to leave the world a better place than you found it.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 10:38pm

I'm pretty sure that there's no bigger sin than sex between two men.

[DG]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 10:47pm

I don't have to 'Imagine No Religion' - it's no part of my reality whatsoever.

For those that take this path, good for you - and for GOD'S sake, leave me out of it!

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 10:52pm

"Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not yet beheld. So that what is beheld has come to be out of things that do not yet appear".

(put that in your book)

Peace!

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 10:54pm

But that doesn't mean anything.

[DG]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 10:58pm

PB - so your recommendation is to ignore what you actually SEE and hope for the best?

No, thanks.

[kelzama]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 11:00pm

Imagine no religion.

Isn't that what Josef Stalin & Mao Tse-Tung tried to do?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 11:01pm

No.

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 11:02pm

ok...maybe to some without faith it doesn't. But it's a famous verse from a pretty old book and I've got to believe in something bigger than my own imperfect self...or what is there to hope for?

[DG]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 11:04pm

"or what is there to hope for?"

The TRUTH - as experienced in REALITY.

[SweetQintheLights]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 11:04pm

"War and discrimination has existed in all cultures since the beginning of time, and even without religion, man has always found some other reason to cause conflict. "

That was put very well.

If we don't fight over religion, we'll find something else just as bad. Conflict and fighting is part of what humans feel they need to do for power. The elimination of religion will not stop the need for power and conflict.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 11:07pm

I've got to believe in something bigger than my own imperfect self...or what is there to hope for?

Humanity as a whole.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 11:19pm

True story: I would turn to my father during High Holiday Services as say "Organized Religion is a tool of the Devil ... one story, three endings, and let's kill each other over what is right. How could that not be something the Devil thought up."

I am not saying that there is no God, only that man is imperfect, and any institution that has power and the ability to sway others is something that can easily abused. For the same reason Communism will never work (for the state will never whither away - the vast majority of men and women would not relinquish power once attained) organized religion in my mind is a flawed institution - once you have power and influence, very few men or women have the ability to release it and share such power with other.

I have great respect for men and women of faith. If they believe in a higher power, and find solace and comfort in that, more power to them. I have very little respect for those who abandon free will and let others tell them what to think and how to act. That is just my personal opinion, and is based upon what I have seen through my life experiences.

I have met many Christians who I respect and admire, and who follow the teachings of Christ in a way that is a positive impact on their community and the world. But, I have met many more who are no more than a shell of a human being, who only parrot what they are taught, and are happy to be told how to lead their lives without examining whether the path they are taking is actually the right one. Many of these people (this is a generalization) are too lazy to really think for themselves, so they take the path of least resistance, comforted in the belief that they have told what they are doing is the right path. Many of these people would crucify Christ all over again if he actually asked them to care for their neighbor, love one and other, and tolerate differences.

I am more "Christian" than these posers.

So, faith is wonderful. Organized religion (with some exceptions) not so much.

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 11:20pm

The TRUTH - as experienced in REALITY.

DG, who's truth? I live in the real world but I don't put my hope or trust in imperfect people. While I have an agape love for people, my faith stems from another source. We all have to find what we beleive in whatever that might be. I've found mine and hope others will also.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 11:22pm

"I have great respect for men and women of faith."

Why?

[kelzama]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 11:23pm

"Atheism is the core of the whole Soviet system" —Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn, The Oak and the Calf

"[Religion] in its very essence is the mortal enemy of Communism." —Leon Trotskii, Pravda, June 24, 1923

RE: Stalin
Under him, religion was pounded out; people were to support loyalty to each other, not a supreme being.

RE: Mao Tse-Tung
google "great helmsman" and "cultural revolution".

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 11:24pm

That's not imagining no religion. That's suppressing it.

[kelzama]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 11:27pm

Well, now, there's a circle for you.

I'd imagine first they imagined it, then proceeded to squash those pesky believers out of existence as they tried to make it reality.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 11:31pm

Totally different thing. But like most hysterics, you went right to assuming it was about suppression because you feel so indicted and affronted by a simple request to imagine something.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 11:36pm

I separate faith from organized religion.

Many people of faith I have met have come from very tough backgrounds. Faith in something larger than themselves enabled them to get through some very hard times.

To be able to look beyond yourself and see all of the crap that goes on and still say that there is a God, and that we can make this world a better place is powerful. And, for many of the people I have met, faith saved them from what only can be described as falling into a very dark and deep personal hole.

I cannot speak for anyone else, but if you are able to connect with a spirit or power that is greater than yourself, while keeping your own identity, then I say good for you.

It is just a personal reaction - I have too much logic to abandon it in favor of faith, but I sometimes envy those who can.

My father was an accomplished nuclear physicist, but also a man of faith. He chose Judaism because the religion made sense to him. (He converted). He once told me that while he wanted me to be Jewish, he would rather I be Christian than not have God in my life. This from a man who helped launch the space program, and involved in the first satellites developed.

So, I respect those who can make a leap of faith and believe, while still have their logic and critical reasoning intact. It to me is an accomplishment: believing in a higher power, but not abandoning that which separates us from animals - free will, and the ability to choose.

That still may not make sense to you, but that is the best I can do.
Updated On: 12/10/07 at 11:36 PM

[DG]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 11:40pm

Bravo, YWIW.

Edit - I'm so sorry - BravA! Updated On: 12/10/07 at 11:40 PM