Imagine No Religion- Page 5
Imagine No Religion
robbiej
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
#100Exodus 32:27
Posted: 12/11/07 at 4:11pmLet's not forget the Isaac and Abraham incident. I mean sure, a reprieve was given...But Isaac was going to off Abraham cause God told him to.
#101be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 4:14pmum, robbie wasn't it abe who was gonna do the killing? you can see how well versed i be in the bible.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
robbiej
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
#102be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 4:16pm
Oh God...and I know that, too. That's what was in my head...but it somehow came out opposite and I didn't proof! Your talking to someone who sat through a musical telling of the story. Don't ask.
Right...Abie was gonna knock of Izzy.
#103be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 4:17pmOb brother, if we're going to start quoting Exodus and Leviticus, we're going to come up with some DOOZIES!
robbiej
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
#104be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 4:18pmWell...of course we are! But the point is people are saying there's nothing in Christianity that commands to kill. Not so.
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#105be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 4:20pm
In what context is that quote in (who is God talking about)?
People who were worshipping a golden calf, I believe. What does it matter, though? God said to kill them all.
#106be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 4:21pm
Does the Bible command us to kill Rudy Giuliani--and Judy Nathan?
"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."
--Leviticus 20:10
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#107be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 4:24pm
Does the Bible command us to kill Rudy Giuliani--and Judy Nathan?
Well, yeah it does. Which is kind of point I've been making all along. Why is it always the gays who have to hear about what sinners they are?
Besides, Rudy can also be taken down for sex out of wedlock, since he's not married to Judy in the eyes of God.
#108be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 4:27pm
Well then, I have nothing to add to that, other than the fact that God was, in the Old Testament, not nearly as forgiving as in the new one. Christ, however, did not tell anyone to kill anyone.
Which begs this question: Why is there evil in the world?
robbiej
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
#109be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 4:28pm
Was God a Gemini?? Did he start taking mood altering drugs?? I mean...
Can you see the problem some have with religion?
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#110be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 4:31pm
Well then, I have nothing to add to that, other than the fact that God was, in the Old Testament, not nearly as forgiving as in the new one.
Are there two gods in the bible? Certainly not to people like Huckabee, if they believe the Adam and Eve story is true. If they believe it's literal from the first word, it's got to be literal throughout.
Again, I ask, why is it only gay sex that drives everyone so crazy? Why doesn't the anti-gay marriage legislation abolish heterosexual divorce?
Updated On: 12/11/07 at 04:31 PM
#111be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 4:41pm
Let's not forget that whole flood thing, or the various rules condoning murder or violence in the old testament, or that whole killing of every first born non-Jewish child in Egypt thing, or the time he toppled an entire tower to teach humans a lesson for being presumptuous, or that whole hell thing he created (which isn't really in the bible anyway), or that whole apocalypse thing...
Yeah... that God was one swell dude. Here's a random passage from the bible condoning slavery from the mouth of The Dude himself:
"The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given."
(Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
Jesus doesn't condone religious violence and martyrdom? Where'dja get that one?
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. {39} He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. "
Matthew 10:34,39
I could go on but I shan't. You can look up the wailing and gnashing of teeth for yourself. Let's not even get started on the Qu'ran.
Let's take a non-Christian religion. Buddhism. Strictly, expressly anti-violence. Now I sort of approve of buddhism because it's a non impositional spirituality and it's more of a philosophy anyway. But all the same, you can raise the debate about whether or not strict adherence to NOT reacting is really the most positive way to lead a life.
I mean, we'd all agree that the castration of children was a crime for Christianity. I don't see why any life should be castrated in the service of religion.
joey
#112be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 4:43pm
And how do you know what Christ really said?
My understanding that any documentation of the teachings of Christ did not emerge until well after his death.
And, your statement that Christ did not tell anyone to kill anyone...
Really?
His teachings were mostly positive, but there were plenty of threats there as well.
Violence in the New Testament
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#113be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 4:48pm
Jesus is quoted in Matthew (the Godspell Gospel!) as saying:
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." Matthew, 10:34-39
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#114be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 4:51pm
And doesn't the concept of the trinity teach us that god, jesus and the holy ghost spirit are one? As the big guy advocates, so does his son. And that ghost, too.
#115be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 4:52pmBack to bible school, GuitarGirl--you flunked!
#116be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 4:59pm
Also, the whole "the old testament god" was just a big meanie, but the new testament god is all nice has been used for centuries as one of the justifications for the systematic exclusion and destruction of the religion that only accepts that OT god.
Although just because the bible says these things doesn't mean you have to agree with it to believe the "good things" there are many complicated and important distinctions in how these texts are interpreted. Certainly someone like Huckabee or Phelps, by virtue of their strict literalism, use this to justify evil behavior.
#117be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 5:00pm
Oh, and to answer your question, guitargirl:
There is no good, there is no evil. There is merely the arbitrary morality we have imposed on the universe because it helps our species thrive. And is that such a good thing? After all, we're destroying the planet. Is it better for humans to dominate? If the purpose of life is to continue itself (which Christians maintain) then there are much more successful beings than we at it. We're rather failures.
Riddle me THIS, guitargirl: If morality comes from God, and God is the person who decides what is good and what is evil, who is to say that this is a moral God? Perhaps God itself is immoral, and imposes its own dystopia and immorality on an unsuspecting population. The world is not benevolent so consequently God must not be either. Kind of a sadistic psychopath, I'd say.
And there have been clearly immoral Gods... even the Christians have one, Satan. If he isn't the creator God he sure does seem to hav some God-like influence.
joey
#118be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 5:03pm
Oh and if the Judeo-Christian God is all good and all knowing why does he grant wealth and prosperity only to the nations of the world where most people would be raised in a society where they would worship him? What about South American countries, what are they doing wrong?
What about the billions of people in this world who are raised in a society where they will be persecuted for being Christians, or mocked, or would never even think of becoming one, or are never even exposed to it? What abotu the billions of people who have lived throughout history and never heard the word Jesus?
What about them, o kind and loving Jesus. Thank you for the SUV but I would have preferred a hummer and some McDonald's.
***/rant over
joey
#119be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 5:13pm
Ronin, engaging those very issues (that some people are set aside as lesser, obviously have less, and are degraded both as people and in relation to God) is a key factor in Liberation, Queer, Black and Womanist theology.
There is no simple answer to those things, and for some people they feel they move ahead and overcome the pain and destruction of the world when they see themselves mirrored in what they consider a poor and cast aside people (Israel) and person/God Jesus.
Many people engage the issue of weather God (whatever that is) is or should be all knowing or all powerful- certainly I agree with you in principle and I have said it myself that the God of the fundamentalists if it exists is evil.
The rest though is fundamentally complicated and certainly your point can be quite true, if our purpose is to see life continue itself- that may be an immoral value, but it is far from a universal ideal in and of itself.
#120be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 5:18pmron is a heathen who's going to hellist of hells where he will spend eternity sniffing rush limbaugh's taco bell farts up close and personal while hearing onward christian soldiers sung by the roseanne barr.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
robbiej
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
#121be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 5:22pm
"rush limbaugh's taco bell farts"
And it's with this line that you've officially gone too far. I'm now going to unswallow.
#122be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 5:27pm
"And there have been clearly immoral Gods... even the Christians have one, Satan. If he isn't the creator God he sure does seem to hav some God-like influence. "
Satan isn't God (isn't a god), he was created by God. I do agree that he does have God-like influence.
I don't think Jesus literally meant that he would hurt or kill people, but that if they knew it was their duty to serve God and deliberately decided not to, then they would "spiritually" be punished by not going to heaven and instead going to hell.
#123be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 5:29pmOh, so each person CAN interpret the Bible differently.
#124be excellent to each other
Posted: 12/11/07 at 5:39pm
YOU may not think... but a helluvalot more people do!
Maybe it's all part of God's plan. The Lord works in mysterious ways. I'll tell that to the little South Asian girl who just lost her entire family to flooding and hurricanes.
Penguin, I totally agree that there are way better philosophies we can use to consider the moral problems of the world than a white guy with a beard who sits on a throne in the sky watching us all the time.
joey
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