Imagine No Religion- Page 4

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 11:42pm

I see what you're saying YWIW, but it also seems as if you're saying, "I wish I weren't quite as smart as I am."

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 12/10/07 at 11:50pm

No.

Intellect has nothing to do with it, and if it came off that way, it just shows how inarticulate I can be!

I was born a skeptic, and will most likely die a skeptic.

I have a belief in humanity, and do believe that if given the chance, most of us would do good rather than evil. And, try to lead my life in a way that is positive without regrets. I treat others as I would like to be treated, and try (though do not always succeed) to not judge others unless I have walked in their shoes.

I just have not embraced the whole concept of some entity that is all knowing and powerful. There is too much pain for that to be part of some plan. I do however believe that there is something that makes humans unique, and more than just an animal, though often, we behave like animals.

My father was brilliant, and I am nowhere near his intellectual match - as I said before, intellect has nothing to do with it.

I am more of a "what is" person rather than a "what if" person.
Again, that probably does not help explain things but it is the best I can do.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/11/07 at 12:04am

No, I'm just trying to get at what you're getting at. To me it seems if you're saying "I wish I could un-know what I know" (or not to have eaten of the tree of knowledge, if you will!) because there is something simple and easy about not searching for answers, but surrendering to "faith."

To put it the way Richard Dawkins says it, to take all the things we're clueless about and call THAT 'God.'

I read a great interview with the guy who mapped the human genome in the last issue of Rolling Stone and they asked him if these advances in our fundamental understanding of human life that he has spearheaded (advances that fomerly were considered unknowable mysteries) had given him a deeper sense of spirituality and of god. "Less, actually," he replied.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 12/11/07 at 12:11am

Well, each person is different, and reacts to life and its experiences differently.

For me, I don't have the ability just to believe - others do.

That is why I would never begrudge one's personal belief in faith, while happily challenge the institution of organized religion. One is deeply personal and unique to each individual, and the other, well, in my opinion, is a vehicle to advance agendas and expand power in the name of someone other than yourself. In many instances, it is a Trojan Horse used to influence and control people.

But, enough thoughtfulness for tonight - I hear a nice glass of red wine calling my name.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/11/07 at 12:18am

As long as it's not a burning bush calling your name. You don't need THAT!

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 12/11/07 at 12:21am

That is what penicillin is for...

[GuitarGirl]

Posted: 12/11/07 at 6:14am

"But you're not believing in life after death so much as hoping (against hope, as it turns out) that you will survive death. I don't understand how knowing, KNOWING, that this life is your one and only time around the track wouldn't motivate you to live the best life you can and to try to leave the world a better place than you found it."

No one knows whether you will survive after death or not. I have faith that there is life after death, in some form or another. That doesn't prevent me from living a good life. Actually, many religions encourage living a good, full life while doing good for others. It's interesting to think about the meaning of life. Is it to live it to the fullest before we die (and that's it)? Or to live it to the fullest with some other goal in mind (i.e. what religions teach about afterlife)? A good, full life can come out of either one, so there's no harm in believing in one or the other.

I have heard of and experienced problems with the Church, but at the same time I have met people who are faithful with their religion and don't represent (or condone) the kind of corruption that is happening in the Church. These people don't try to force their faith on anyone, even if they believe in it.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 12/11/07 at 7:28am

"It doesn't embarrass me one bit to let you know that I believe Adam and Eve were real people."

--Mike Huckabee, 1990.

[DG]

Posted: 12/11/07 at 10:37am

"take all the things we're clueless about and call THAT 'God.'"

Which makes about as much sense to me as acknowledging all the things we're clueless about, yet saying there can't be 'God'.

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 12/11/07 at 11:19am

Ok, the judeo-christian religions did not invent the laws upon which modern society rests its feet. Science has progressed both in step AND in spite of religion. Democracy existed long before anyone ever thought up Jesus. Human idealism has existed for thousands of years and will continue long after Christianity is a footnote (if we're not all dead by then).

Religion empowers people with an unfounded sense that they are right, in spite of facts. Any ideologue, including communism and atheism, has the ability to do this. Ideologues are the true danger. (Although historically religion has been used to justify more murder than atheism ever could, modern devils be damned. Charity has been and will continue to be performed in the name of God or not.)

Quite frankly I think religion is a completely ancillary element of human life. If we all found out conclusively that there wasn' a God tomorrow, I'm sure we'd be sad for a while but you know what? We'd still get up in the morning and drag ourselves on, just like we've been doing for however many years. Especially in this day and age when we know so much about science.

Believe in the supernatural, in God, whatever... just don't tell me he wrote you a book or afflicted Africa with a disease or caused a hurricane. Or that he's a white dude with a beard watching my every move. God is a concept and a very useful one but be careful with it.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 12/11/07 at 11:46am

"I am God" - Shirley MacLaine

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 12/11/07 at 11:48am

Then why did I find an entire set of her books thrown into the street, like trash?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 12/11/07 at 12:04pm

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 12/11/07 at 12:15pm

A better question is why were you rooting around in someone else's trash in the first place.

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 12/11/07 at 12:25pm

[kelzama]

Posted: 12/11/07 at 12:31pm

"Totally different thing. But like most hysterics, you went right to assuming it was about suppression because you feel so indicted and affronted by a simple request to imagine something."

No, wrong entirely, Namo. Especially since I haven't expressed personal views towards religion and theology at all.

I merely offered a little case-study of the 20th century "visionaries" who did exactly what this thread proposed, then took that ideology (under the guise of economics, not theology) to a horrific extreme.

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 12/11/07 at 12:39pm

The rapid development of the eastern world during the 20th century as well as widespread economic trouble, two world wars, and a struggle for an old world to transform into a new one is what led to men like Mao and Stalin. It wasn't the concept of atheism telling them to kill other people, they turned atheism ino as much a religion as Christianity or Buddhism.

The times that gave us Mao and Stalin also gave us Hitler, who was very (bizarrely) religious.

[kelzama]

Posted: 12/11/07 at 1:07pm

That's the point, roninjoey. Twisted extremism.

"It wasn't the concept of atheism telling them to kill other people, they turned atheism ino as much a religion as Christianity or Buddhism."

Neither Christianity nor Buddhism, nor most organized religions, encourage killing. Idiot interpretations might, but the tenets don't.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 12/11/07 at 1:27pm

Some would argue that Mao was turned into almost a religious figure himself.

The fervor of the Cultural revolution, and citations from his little red book, the purges and desire to find those pure to Mao's belief...Mao may have been against other religions, and try to stamp out some of the religious traditions historic to China, but he was to many in China, tantamount to a religious figure.

There have been temples erected in China where people pray to Mao.

[kelzama]

Posted: 12/11/07 at 3:31pm

Exactly.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 12/11/07 at 3:51pm

Neither Christianity nor Buddhism, nor most organized religions, encourage killing.

How many people over the ages have been killed "in the name of Christ"?

[kelzama]

Posted: 12/11/07 at 3:59pm

6th Commandment pretty much covers the killing thing.

How people interpret tenets to suit their needs is another issue altogether.

[GuitarGirl]

Posted: 12/11/07 at 4:02pm

"How many people over the ages have been killed "in the name of Christ"?"

That is their decision. Christ isn't saying (and never said) "Go kill. Now. In my name."

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 12/11/07 at 4:05pm

He said to them, "Thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, 'Every man of you put his sword upon his thigh, and go back and forth from gate to gate in the camp, and kill every man his brother, and every man his friend, and every man his neighbor.'"

[GuitarGirl]

Posted: 12/11/07 at 4:09pm

In what context is that quote in (who is God talking about)?