My Da Vinci Code Connection- Page 2

[Thesbijean]

Posted: 4/16/06 at 12:01pm

The Bible is a great fiction novel if you ask me...

[Burlesquebabe]

Posted: 4/16/06 at 12:53pm

As per my Rent and Aida avatars I actually didn't make that, I actually hate Rent and Aida and don't ever call me ignorant in any situation. And I don't care what theologians say I follow what my heart says and I happen to believe what it says in the bible. Enough said.

[steveshack]

Posted: 4/16/06 at 1:06pm

>And I don't care what theologians say I follow what my heart says and I happen to believe what it says in the bible. Enough said.

And more power to you. My remarks are in no way meant as a criticism of your beliefs. Many of the best people I know follow a totally "orthodox" belief system. For me, it's not WHAT you believe that's as important as HOW you apply that belief. If, like many True Believers, you use your beliefs to denigrate and destroy the rights of those who do not follow your beliefs -- like the hateful TV evangelists who use Jesus like flaming harpoon through the hearts of others -- then you are only paying lip service to what Jesus actually taught.

But if you a person of love and mercy and grace, willing to allow others the integrity of their beliefs, then you've got the right idea. You don't have to defend your beliefs. Just live them.

[DramaDork925]

Posted: 4/16/06 at 1:10pm

You say you follow your heart and believe what's in the bible, well, I follow mine and believe there is more to the story than that. So according to your prior statement "just read one of the last verses in Revelations to see what will happen them if they don't stop this mess." that applies to anyone who doesn't share your belief. That's not very Christian or fair and that is definetly not what Jesus had in mind... when will people realize the bible and Jesus aren't weapons?

[Burlesquebabe]

Posted: 4/16/06 at 1:11pm

I know Steveshack I was just really talking to the one who called me ignorant because of what I think.

[steveshack]

Posted: 4/16/06 at 1:24pm

>I know Steveshack I was just really talking to the one who called me ignorant because of what I think.

That's fine, but you know, your remark about Revelations was really offensive, IMO. And more to the point, most scholars agree that the Book of Revelations was actually an allegory written against the Roman empire using symbols to disguise the true intent in order to keep from being persecuted.

You really have to be careful when you start throwing condemnation around without fully knowing what you're talking about. It can make you seem ignorant (and I mean that in a "not having a full knowledge of your subject matter" ignorant, not in an insulting manner). Leave the condemnation at home and just be a person of love. And, of course, burlesque. So, are you a stripper?

[best12bars]

Posted: 4/16/06 at 1:52pm

Back to your original intent of this thread... nice article, steveshack.

I too have been baffled by all the "Dan Brown hounding." He wrote an entertaining, thought-provoking NOVEL... that ended up morphing into this overwhelming, controversial, phenomenal success. I hope the Browns are maintaining "grace under pressure," but I'm sure it's been a very rough ride. Incredible (and probably unpredicted) highs and lows.

Anytime something is built up THIS much, the "idol" that is created by the masses usually ends up being torn down again, piece by piece. It's an old pattern... going back to, you know... biblical times, and even earlier. Human nature, I guess.

I see you defending your friends right and left here... unfortunately. I hope it doesn't sour you.

While the door is open, though, I have one question. I thoroughly enjoyed the book, and had a rather surreal experience reading it, as I was on a cruise going through England, Ireland, Scotland and ultimately France. I ended up visiting just about EVERY single location in the book as I was reading it. Talk about a hands-on, interactive experience! It beat the hell out of the picture book.

Back to my question for you (with a warning about SPOILERS ahead!!!): My only issue with the novel was the point made at the end about the ultimate "divine" union of male and female being the closest humans get to God on earth. While I understand this idea completely, I felt a little left out of his "point" as a gay man. It bordered on coming off like "power to the straight people," because we're closer to God than YOU are. I'm usually overly-sensitive about stuff like that, admittedly. I was wondering if this issue ever occurred to you, and/or if you've ever discussed anything like that with Dan and Blythe? I will end by saying it was a DAMN good read, though!

[steveshack]

Posted: 4/16/06 at 1:59pm

>My only issue with the novel was the point made at the end about the ultimate "divine" union of male and female being the closest humans get to God on earth. While I understand this idea completely, I felt a little left out of his "point" as a gay man. It bordered on coming off like "power to the straight people," because we're closer to God than YOU are. I'm usually overly-sensitive about stuff like that, admittedly. I was wondering if this issue ever occurred to you, and/or if you've ever discussed anything like that with Dan and Blythe? I will end by saying it was a DAMN good read, though!

I actually didn't give it any thought. I kind of think of gay people as being already a fusion of male and female. So, we're divine when we're born! That's why there have been so many gay people revered as two-spirit and as holy men thoughout history. In a way, by so many of us having such a strong connection to both sides of our gender identities, we have been both a subject of veneration and hate.

[best12bars]

Posted: 4/16/06 at 2:15pm

Well, I certainly like the idea of being "divine when I was born," as opposed to being not as close to God in life, because of my orientation.

I don't think of myself as a fusion of the sexes, though. I'm a male, not a "mix"... fundamentally attracted to members of my own gender.

And I must say that I haven't heard ANY other gay people make the observation I did here... so I'm not surprised it didn't occur to you (or others, really). I guess we all have to come up with our own confident rationalization of how we are close to God.

I just felt like Dan was making a very beautiful point at the end... and it left me feeling like a second-class citizen after I put the book down. Because of how I was born, I will never know this "divine union" he speaks of... unless I "join" with a member of the opposite sex.

EDIT: You've actually answered my question already, though. It hasn't occurred to you, and you haven't discussed something like this with Dan and Blythe. So, I'll let it go!

Updated On: 4/16/06 at 02:15 PM

[Burlesquebabe]

Posted: 4/16/06 at 2:24pm

No, my Username is really just an inside joke that is too long to tell. But I appreciate what you said about revelations.

[steveshack]

Posted: 4/16/06 at 2:38pm

>I don't think of myself as a fusion of the sexes, though. I'm a male, not a "mix"... fundamentally attracted to members of my own gender.

Not so much a fusion of the sexes, literally. But I do think that, as a people, we tend to be much more spiritually aware of the value of the "female" power within each of us, both hetero and homo. How often have we heard men talk about needing to get in touch with their "inner woman." Like the movie Tootsie. So, while the novel was much more literal in that it spoke specifically of a sexual bonding, I still view it in the metaphorical because we become more fully human and more fully divine when we embrace both sides to us. After all, every human being begins life as a female in the uterus. The male forms because of hormones and whatever else turns us male.

Dan's book is just a novel and he's a hetero, so he probably didn't stop to really think about all the ramifications of this issue -- but I think it's an important point that you raise.

And yes, I fully and truly believe that being gay has given me a special spiritual insight that, while achievable by anyone, is something more easily attained when one is blessed with the two-spirit (as named by Native Americans) orientation.

Defending Dan and Blythe Brown Updated On: 4/16/06 at 02:38 PM

[best12bars]

Posted: 4/16/06 at 2:39pm

Steve---I like the way you think. Thanks for clarifying. And it makes sense.

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 4/16/06 at 9:39pm

A very well-written blog, Steveshack, and insightful and thoughtful comments on here. While I'm not crazy about Dan Brown's writing style, the theories he discusses and the plot of the book gripped me from beginning to end, and inspired me to study art and religious relics and sites on my down time. (Can't wait until the movie comes out!)

I personally not only as a Christian but really as a human being thinks that book is, and no offense at all, trash I mean...AHH! That book just angers me so! Sorry but I really had to vent especially with Easter ahead.

I know it's fiction but still I'm very sensitive to people even trying to fix God's word.

Because it's not true, atleast that's why I'm angry. Until they point out in the Bible anything saying Jesus was married why don't they shutup and just read one of the last verses in Revelations to see what will happen them if they don't stop this mess.

So as a human being, how does this book anger you? Seems like all your anger has to do with your beliefs as a Christian.

[steveshack]

Posted: 4/16/06 at 10:30pm

>>the theories he discusses and the plot of the book gripped me from beginning to end, and inspired me to study art and religious relics and sites on my down time.

That's the real beauty of the book, that it is packed FULL of great little tidbits of information and scholarship. Details upon details that are wonderful to digest and learn. The value and fun of the book is not so much his skills as a writer of prose, but his ingenious way of jamming so much great info onto every page.

[StageManager2]

Posted: 4/16/06 at 11:59pm

I also like the way you think, steveshack. You seem very informative and, what else, compassionate and considerate.

[zzannahk]

Posted: 4/17/06 at 12:00am

i think all people who take religion too seriously should see Dogma, it's one of my favorite movies!!

[Dollypop]

Posted: 4/17/06 at 7:01am

I've read both THE DaVINCI CODE and ANGELS AND DEMONS. Both books were real page turners, but like the old Astaire and Rogers movies, they were the same story in different settings. Both books fell apart in their denouments. The endings were downright laughable.

As a Catholic, I wasn't offended by the theories contained in the books. After all, they were both works of fiction.

[Pippin]

Posted: 4/17/06 at 12:59pm

as a christian who doesn't attend church any more, I also was not offended, but intrigued by the points Dan Brown brought up. It also made me realize how much most of us today just accept things becuase they are there, and put little thought and/or no questioning into them. I have always been a believer that the most powerful and liberating word in the english language is "why". you have to ask why all the time, or you will end up blindly accepting things that are far from the truth.

[steveshack]

Posted: 4/17/06 at 3:00pm

Pippin, it's funny you should say that. In Jim's and my new musical The Big Voice: God or Merman? (which traces our spiritual journey as gay men who found God in musical theatre -- who doesn't??), and which will probably open in NY in September, our opening number is called "Why?"

We ask all the right questions, IMO. And we even find some answers...
The Big Voice website