Oklahoma City Univ. Summer Program is AMAZZZING- Page 2

[triplethreat101]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 12:21am

OKay, i went to the OCU camp last year and saw Les Mis this year! and i loved the camp last year and only didnt go this year, jsut cause i was busy and i am going to Boston Conservatory in the fall instead of OCU. Anywho, i loved the camp and thought les mis was brilliant and i know OCU is a GREAT school!!!

HOWEVER....i have to say that i agree with JG, why is it that waitingforkathy can come on here and blatently bash one camp, but JG states his/her opinion and he gets attacked. it just doesnt seem to add up

Updated On: 7/30/07 at 12:21 AM

[jg4892]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 12:25am

Wow, again you continue to bash other programs and bash members of the board. Way to prove my point.

[flicker_]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 1:13am

Um, you all DO know what you're arguing about, right? Musical theatre camps? Wow. Chillax. Seriously this whole conversation would turn anyone off to BOTH OCU and Stagedoor. Jg4892, if Stagedoor is so brilliant and whatnot, then whatever WaitingforKathy says shouldn't affect you so much considering you have so much confidence in the stagedoor program. Let it go. If Stagedoor was an amazing experience for you, then that's great, and whatever WaitingforKathy says shouldn't matter. WaitingforKathy, it's great your friend got such a fulfilling experience from OCU, and her opinion that it was better than Stagedoor is completely appropriate and in no way hateful or bitter. So, I see no reason for people to get worked up over that particular comment. However, I have not seen WaitingforKathy's previous posts. But, if they do contain some mean-spirited comments, then you, WaitingforKathy, should at least list reasonable reasons and don't say hurtful things about people who have gone to Stagedoor.

Also, jg, you said you were seriously considering OCU until you saw these posts....Seriously? Find a reliable source before you decide which camp to go to.

[Soozie]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 1:19am

That's the thing.....these behaviors are speaking loudly for themselves.

I have read post after post on this thread and others how OCU is a "serious program" or "real training" and that Stagedoor Manor is not and that those who attend are "egotistical", "spoiled," "stuck up" and so on. Bash, bash, bash. I haven't seen one person from SDM bash OCU or any other program. This speaks volumes. Why do those who promote OCU feel a need to say they are the best and other very worthwhile and reputable programs are no good? I think a lot of these programs are good and I don't see anything but disrespectful juvenile behavior to have to try to prove one's program is the very best in the land and to do that, rather than say, "I like this or that about the program," the driving mantra is "this is the best and the others suck," in so many words. As someone who has had a child attend SDM, I can share why my kid loved it and how the experiences significantly impacted her life and I can share all I know a bout the program. I have no need, desire, or feelings that it is better than other programs. I just know why I think it is good in and of itself.

Some posters here are pulling at straws. Let's see, first an accusation that erinrebecca and jg are one and the same which is so completely untrue and they do not even know one another! Now, anyone who says, "wait a minute, why when posting that OCU is good, must you denigrate other programs and posters?," they are told that they are EMPLOYEES of Stagedoor Manor! I am laughing at this one. Jg is someone who is a camper! I have been a parent of a long time camper in the past. Employees? LOL

Funny, but actually employees of OCU's summer program have spammed discussion boards promoting the program. Get the facts straight. Nobody here who has attended any other programs is putting down OCU. But the OCU cheerleaders here seem to have a real need to have to put down certain other posters or programs. Really now, this is what is offensive. Can't you post what you like about your program in and of itself and offer to answer questions about it? Why do you so desire to put down other programs? I have no clue. I have NOTHING against OCU's program and recommend it to others. I am glad when people share about their FIRST HAND experiences at summer programs and colleges. It helps me to know more about them and recommend them to others. I have friends whose kids have attended OCU for the summer and I am glad I have gotten first hand feedback from them, and not what I am reading here. Their thoughtful sharing of the program has allowed me to recommend it to others.

Don't worry, you are not hurting SDM or those who attend. The place books up in fall every year for the following summer and is doing well. Many who attend have a terrific experience. Many who "graduate" go onto the top BFA and BA programs in the land and professional careers. They could care less that OCU afficiondos want to denigrate the program or those who attend. I have never heard of a SDM kid put down OCU's program. Frankly, many have never even heard of it and I never had until I read all the promotion on various forums. I'm glad I learned about it and will recommend it to people but my views are definitely skewed when on boards like this one I read thread after thread of OCU proponents (who may attend or not) who have an attitude of wanting to promote it as better than all other programs and have a strong desire to offensively denigrate other programs. These sorts of threads and posts put a very bad attitude and mark on any of the positive impressions I may have otherwise garnered about OCU. That's a shame. Luckily, I know some respectable folks who have gone to OCU and got some good vibes from them but otherwise, if I had only read threads and posts such as these here, I would be turned away by the disrespectful attitudes completely.

WSS.....thank you for characterizing Stagedoor as weenie roasts and little skits. That is really accurate....NOT. I guess MTI keeps doing some first productions there (RENT, High School Musical, Avenue Q) because it is a place for skits and campfires. And all the kids who come out and get into every top BFA program and are on Broadway, National Tours, and off Broadway, got their training through skits. These sorts of posts speak such volumes about those aligned with OCU that you ought to just keep it going!

Did you see Stagedoor Manor on the Today show this past weekend? It must be such a bad program that it is constantly getting National media attention!

I have not read one negative word about OCU's program from anyone from Stagedoor. I personally have no negative views about OCU's summer program other than the attitude I am reading here which is too bad because it is a fine program and the powers that be there likely would not be too pleased to read such offensive posts by those who ironically are trying to champion the program.

If I wanted someone to put the word out on OCU, I'd want to hear what they enjoyed and got out of it for its own sake and not because they had to put down other programs to elevate their own.

[Soozie]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 1:28am

Flickr....Sorry, I cross posted with you and so am now responding to your post:

The thing is that some of us are NOT arguing about Musical Theater summer programs. The OCU kids seem to be wanting to compare. I have not seen that from anyone here who has not gone to OCU. Others who either have attended the programs they are bashing (or even posters who are merely observing the bashinng who have not attended any programs) are calling these certain posters on the offensive nature of their many posts on this board on this subject. Nobody from other programs here is saying, "no, ours is best." I have no clue why these OCU promoters wish to denigrate other programs (whereas posters from other programs have no interest in denigrating OCU), and why the promotoers of OCU's program have to continually bash in offensive ways other programs and posters who have attended certain other programs. It is just not the nasty posts on this thread but on others as well. Look them up sometime. The offensive nature of those posts by these OCU "promoters" (funny term as it is having an opposite effect) IS the issue that others are bringing up. Others are not putting down OCU or arguing about camps. They are saying, "tell us about your program without bashing other programs or those who attend."
Updated On: 7/30/07 at 01:28 AM

[jg4892]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 1:28am

Yes, flicker, I am serious. I had been interested in both programs equally, and couldn't decide which program to apply to. The OCU promoters were rude and elitist, while the stagedoor people were friendly and enthusiastic. Those kind of things can make a difference. I certainly didn't want to spend 3 weeks with those kind of people. Thank you Soozie, you've said everything better than I could. The skit part makes me laugh really hard, considering the amazing premiere production of Avenue Q they just put on that the original broadway cast and creative team attended.

[zoran912]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 5:06am

As a student majoring in musical theater at OCU, I really would appreciate it if all the "promotors" of the summer program and the musical theatre degree would stop. You're embarassing yourselves and every single student currently studying at the school, not to mention our alumni.

Think before you type. That is all I am asking. Many people read these boards and I do not want the name of my university cheapened due to overzealous posters on a message board.

Thank you.

[triplethreat101]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 11:20am

okay i agree with everything Zoran and Soozie just said! just stop!

like seriously one camp can be good for one person that isnt good for another. there isnt a right or wrong here. and Tuttle and WSS should stop making jabs at others on these boards, its not very polite plus its just gross. Tuttle some of the things you said on here are just rude and completely unnecessary

[Unknown User]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 12:43pm

All,
This is my first, and my last, entry into thread-dom. It took me forever to figure this out.

I was notified by a thoughtful individual rightfully upset about the topic and unfortunate tone of this particular thread. I do not participate in discussion boards, but after reading the exchange, I think I should weigh in.

I am in complete agreement with those who are offended by trash talk of other programs.
I do not see the need to do this. Please stop. It hurts everyone and does no one any good.

There is no such thing as the “best” program or one being better than another. It is impossible. This isn’t sports where scores are kept and rankings can be determined; this is art and artistry. Subjective stuff. Don’t waste any time with pissing contests!

I consider myself a partner to summer programs and college/university programs. I am humbled by the teachers in other Music Theater programs: I have seen their productions, I have seen their performers, I know how hard they work. I have nothing on them; we all work ridiculously hard. I have taught scores of students who did not end up going to OCU, but rather felt connected to another program. This only makes me happy.

Referring to the sense of common good and community that a musical production creates, I often quip that I want the entire world to be a musical – with me as director, telling everyone what to do…(There is usually a laugh following the quip)…

But I have to admit that I wonder how fit I am to lead, as somehow individuals associated with OCU (distantly or maybe closely, who knows) got the wrong message and think that this is the way I want us represented; it is not – and I never want anyone to think that it is. I am sorry for this and I apologize to any who were offended.

This is to all of you posters: Whatever the intentions (good or bad) please redirect your approach to positive discussions of all programs. It is possible to learn from all experiences, love all your experiences, and grow in any program, because growth comes from the student’s effort – an additive experience which includes their experiences with other teachers and programs.

My best to you all in your discussions. Be clear and positive in your meanings. Please refrain from taunts, “told ya’ so”, and criticisms – leave that for the mean-spirited.

Cordially,
David Herendeen
Dir. of Opera and Musical Theater
Oklahoma City University

[WaitingForKathy]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 1:05pm

You are so right that this has gotten out of hand. As I stated before, I came here and told what my friend had said about the summer camp. HER OPINION. That's what it is. Then, these Stagedoor folk come out in droves and continue to attack HER OPINION. Is this a message board?

And then they go an attack me saying I'm a pomoter for OCU...BECAUSE MY FRIEND WENT THERE? Then I love how Soozie bitches about OCU promoters and saying she doesn't do it for Stagedoor. Then she goes on and rambles on about Stagedoor.."Did you know MTI was there? Did you know they were on the Today show?"

All of this comes down to the Stagedoor prompoters/staff not being happy that their program is getting a bad rap. Like Flickr says, this is one person's opinion. Either leave or deal. Not everyone likes Stagedoor. Get over it. No one is forcing you to read or write message. And thank you Flicker for picking up on the "intelligent" fact that that why would someone go to OCU after this..as if one person's opinion would tell you where to go? That's a laugh.

Bottom line..my friend likes OCU better Stagedoor. If you can't deal with this, then don't read this thread. But that's obviously too hard for some to do.

[erinrebecca]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 1:19pm

Wow, WaitingForKathy, you totally missed the point that Dr. Herendeen kindly came here to make. I suggest that you reread his eloquent post and take his advice to heart, this part, in particular:

"I am in complete agreement with those who are offended by trash talk of other programs.
I do not see the need to do this. Please stop. It hurts everyone and does no one any good.

There is no such thing as the “best” program or one being better than another. It is impossible."

He could not have made it any more clear that he doesn't want you, or anyone else, promoting OCU by criticizing other schools or programs.

[Soozie]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 2:01pm

I lost my post but will try again.

Dr. Herendeen,

I thank you very much for coming on here to post the message that you did. I think well of OCU's summer high school program and its college programs for musical theater. I know those who have gone who have liked it. I recommend the summer and college programs at OCU to students with whom I advise. I will continue to do so. Luckily, because I know enough about your programs, I can look past these detractors who have posted all over threads on BroadwayWorld.com in this fashion, representing OCU, and on other message boards. I worry about those who are seeking information and first hand accounts who will read such posts and be turned off by the attitudes. That would be a shame for such a fine program as OCU. What I hope to see on a message board are students and parents who can share FIRST HAND accounts of programs and tell what they have liked about it, what they got out of it, why they chose it, etc. which is what it is all truly about. I don't even mind comparisons when a student says, "I chose A over B because A met my personal criteria in such and such ways," because that is what choosing an option for training is about in the first place. One program is not better or best. They all differ and it is a matter of figuring out which program best fits one's own criteria, interests, and needs. It helps if folks who know a program well first hand, share about it. So, thank you for putting out a similar message about OCU because those who are promoting it on these public forums are giving an impression that I doubt you want out there. There are folks from OCU who spam other forums, constantly “advertising” it, and trying to sell the program as the “best” and putting down other programs along the way. It would be in OCU’s interests if they stop. I have not observed that type of behavior and spamming from any other summer or college program.

WaitingforKathy,

For one thing, you have not even attended OCU’s programs and so whatever you have to say about it is going to be taken in that light. Yours is not a first hand account. Second, your original post was not that bad in that you said your friend liked OCU better than SDM. Others politely pointed out that it is better to say why she liked OCU without having to bring in other programs. It was AFTER that, that some posters, including yourself, have been quite discourteous. As well, on other threads on this forum, this same sort of bashing of other programs by promoters of OCU has also taken place. That is what some observers, such as myself, are asking you to stop. I believe Dr. Herendeen is also asking for that to stop. He believes, as do I, that trashing other programs is offensive. No one program is the best. In fact, OCU and SDM are not even the same type of programs. One is a pre-college program and one is not. In any case, NOBODY who attends or has any connection to SDM has put down OCU. On another thread, there also was a post by one of the people here about picking OCU and being better than NYU and SDM. This is simply juvenile.

Nobody has attacked your friend’s opinion that she liked OCU better than SDM! I think that’s great for her. She found a program she really loved. That’s what I like to see. I have posted many times that SDM is not for all people and I don’t mind if someone hasn’t liked it. Not at all. Nobody minds that your friend liked OCU better. What posters are calling you, Mr. Tuttle and WSS on is the nasty denigration of other posters or programs. That has occurred in subsequent posts after the initial one, which did not do that.

I don’t care if someone doesn’t like Stagedoor Manor. That doesn’t give it a bad rap at all. Not everyone is going to like every program. But when people like yourself, Mr. Tuttle, and WSS denigrate it with some very nasty accusations, and haven’t even attended no less, that IS offensive. Such talk about OCU would also be offensive to me, but I haven’t seen ANY talk like that here whatsoever. Some, like myself, are simply talking about an attitude, not about OCU itself. Others, like yourself, have put down SDM and posters here. That kind of talk makes the messenger sound bad and puts a poor light on the fine program that OCU truly is. This is not about liking one program more than another. That is only natural. That is why students have a choice! My kids picked their colleges because they fit what they want. They surely never put down or think ill of the programs/colleges that they did not choose to attend. That is precisely what I am talking about. So is Dr. Herendeen. I advise many students applying to Musical Theater programs and when they have to articulate on an application why they wish to attend, they surely better have some very specific reasons why the program fits them and why they fit the program. The reason ought not to be “this is the best program in the land, better than all others.” I’d love to see those of you who love OCU, come and tell us why you loved it (in your case, WaitingforKathey,you haven’t even attended!). That’s what SDM kids and parents do. We have no need to claim it is the best or better. I don’t feel that way at all. I can answer questions about it and share experiences. That is what OCU promoters should do about that program. I’m not sure you get the point we are trying to make here.

By the way, I am not promoting SDM. I never said it was better or best. I am willing to answer questions if anyone has them and to share (which I did NOT even do on this forum). I posted about the Today Show and MTI in defense of posts denigrating SDM as a place for little skits and weenie roasts. I said that SDM campers and parents do not need to promote the program all over the internet and put down other programs. It gets national attention on its own and has no shortage of folks who are wanting to attend and who get closed out every year for over 30 years. So, you are taking my comments out of context. If someone is going to put down the program in that fashion, I will say what I know about it as a RESPONSE. I have never put down OCU and have no need to do so. I think it is a fine program! I could care less if someone chose it over SDM as I think kids should pick a program that suits what they want. OCU is only for HS and SDM is for ages 10-18 and already that is one difference there. My kid chose SDM at age 9 and attended up until she entered a BFA program. She never even looked at pre-college programs. These two programs are not even the same type. If I were making comparisons, I would compare OCU to a program of its type such as MPulse.

We can certainly deal with your pal liking OCU more than SDM! What some of us would like to not deal with is the put downs and offensive posts about other programs and posters. Some have been downright nasty.







Updated On: 7/30/07 at 02:01 PM

[jg4892]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 2:24pm

Thank you for coming in to speak, Dr. Herendeen. That is what the whole argument is about, not OCU's program itself (although I'm sure it is very good).

[DoReMi]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 6:22pm

I've been reading this and there's something interesting.

Why hasnt anyone bothered to call out the member who started this whole problem?...jg4892. After Kathy posted her friend's experience, he immediately made a rude comment...an uncalled comment that was not necessary or addressed anything in Kathy's message.

So why hasn't anyone bothered to address this? Where is erinbecca or Soozie's comments on how wrong it was for him to post this? They are then first to call out other people for making rude and uncalled for comments, but why have they not bothered to talk about the rude comment that started the whole thing. Why? Because he is a Stagedoor promoter person and so are the others who comment. He is a person, with admitted contacts to Stagedoor, who made uncalled for comments attacking the validity of another memeber and her comments, which included the like of on program over the other.

Instead of addressing the root of the problem, the mob mentality decided to gang up on others to draw away attention from one of their own. Pathetic.

Bottom line...Kathy can share all she wants about what her friend experienced at OCU. It's free speech. So can everyone else. You see the true colors of folks when they start calling foul and saying that "you can't say this or that." Their affliations (or even their employer) become more evident.

[jg4892]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 6:50pm

Would you rather have had me start a new thread about it? What is my problem? I think I've established my problem with you guys is how you degrade other programs when talking about your own. Now what is my personal problem in that? The problem doesn't lie in me, but you my friend.

[flicker_]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 6:57pm

jg, the whole point is that you really started this. You were the first one to insult. WaitingforKathy merely posted an opinion, and you were the first one to take it too far. And, like I said before, why would it matter what someone else says about Stagedoor? If you enjoyed your experience there, then that should be enough for you. But, you let WaitingforKathy's innocent comment get to you and you refused to be the better person, which started this whole ridiculous thing.

[jg4892]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 7:02pm

flicker, I guess you don't really understand. I know I loved stagedoor, waitingforkathy and the other posters don't make me doubt that. It's not about being a bigger person. These people are putting down other great programs in their posts. These has been explained so many times I really don't know why you don't get it, flicker. Waitingforkathy has made these innocent comment about a thousand times, along with other posters. This was the breaking point for me, it wasn't this thread. WHY can't they simply talk about their program? If you look at any other people posting about any other programs, you'll see that they simply talk about their love for the program, and they don't have to put down other respectable programs while doing that.

[flicker_]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 7:04pm

"innocent comment about a thousand times..."

So you admit they are innocent. Let's face it, jg, you got worked up over nothing.

[jg4892]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 7:29pm

Flicker, I was quoting you.

[flicker_]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 8:14pm

Really? I see no quotation marks. Learn to express yourself properly before stating an opinion. Learning that might have prevented this whole argument in the first place.

[jg4892]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 8:16pm

Oh, forgive my use of quotation marks. I thought using the exact same words as you would be sufficient enough. And please tell me, how did I not express myself clearly? What do you suggest I do to get the message across stronger? You know, this argument may be silly to you, but it's important to some of us. So how about you don't speak for all of us when you say it's ridiculous and YOU learn to express yourself properly, by acknowledging not everyone think it's "ridiculous". There, quotations. Happy now?
Updated On: 7/30/07 at 08:16 PM

[Soozie]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 1:16am

It seems that some don't get what the behavior is that others are asking to stop as it is most discourteous. Nobody cares if you dislike a program that they have enjoyed. What is being asked is that posters should talk about programs they know well and find worthwhile and appealing without the apparent need to PUT DOWN other programs (or those who attend them) at the same time which is an ongoing pattern for SOME posters on this thread and on many threads on this forum. There are only a few posters who do this, but they are persistant over time and are tainting a FINE program which they ironically wish to promote. They do not represent OCU in any official capacity and in many cases, have not attended the summer program or college program, let alone the programs they are bashing in some odd mission to elevate OCU which can stand on its own merits without having to claim being better than other programs. I do not observe posters who have attended other programs putting down OCU at all. Here are some examples of the kinds of posts that are found to be offensive and which all follow a particular pattern: (again, no problem if someone prefers one program over another and articulates why but that is not what is going on in these posts)....

Excerpts of posts by Mr. Tuttle:

"Someone is here to share their opinion and they have every right not to have you immature twits jumping down their throats.. Just goes to show two fine examples of what Stagedoor produces. Great job kids. Keep it up! Connie is sooo proud of you."

"And I'm sure that OCU is only in rapture about your decision not to apply. Of course, one could only imagine if you would be lucky to be accepted.If Stagedoor is your goal in life, all the best. Perhaps it would be best for you to stay away from a real trainging program. Maybe you could put on an OBC and dance around your living room?"

" You see, my talentless friend..."

"Idiots and mean people like you don't last nor make it."

(on OCU or SDM thread): "My advice...go to OCU. One of the best programs in the nation. Get real training."

(re: BFA in MT programs): "Sorry to burst your ego bubble, but your supposed "well known" fact is hardly that. Anyone who would include BoCo among the top schools certainly doesn't know the "well known" schools. Anyone in "the know" would know that."

(re:CCM): "thanks for posting and allowing us to see what a vapid, shallow, insulting school CCM is. You are a perfect product of the machine."

(Re: Camp movie): "I'm sure there's a real movie here to be made. Hopefully not involving egosentric StageDoor kids."

Excerpts of posts by WaitingforKathy:

"And what's sadder is that Soozivt is a so-called counselor for College Confidential. Is this how you talk to potential prospects? Why would I want to work with someone as rude as you?"

"So there. Now you Stagedoor babies can go cry. But of course you'll first whine about how someone is attacking the best camp ever."

(re OCU summer program): "its the best musical theater summer camp around so everyone tries to get in!!"

Re: Camp movie: "the kids at Stagedoor are just as stuck up and snotty in real life."

" Congrats to my friend who posts here for getting into the OCU musical theater program. I wanted nto audition but waited to long and they're full. Darn! She got a great scholarship too and gets to do Les Miz. I know she'll have a great time since it's the best camp in the US."

(in a thread discussing OCU or SDM): "The program is freekin' amazing. It is for serious musical theater performers so don't expect to go horseback riding."

Excerpts of posts by WSS2:

" Just ignore these bad people Kathy. You notice they just keep talking in circles? Any parent can spot a spoiled child. Speaks volumes for their Stagedoor, doesn't it?"Just remember there's no debate here. Just look at the websites. OCU is a serious, educational program where you get solid training. If you wanna go and roast a weenie and do a little skit, then Stagedoor is for you.
Some of us get it. And some of them are paid employees working for Stagedoor. Right jg?"

" I talked to my friend (they are really tired at the end of the day...no Les Miz joke intended:) who said the OCU Summer musical theatre program is amazing. Said it is a life changing experience and the staff (made up of OCU professors) is top notch. She is so glad she went there than Stagedoor or NYU."

(re: OCU Summer music program): "they got over 200 hundred audition and less than half were admitted. Wow. Move over CMU!"

(re; OCU's college program): "It's a harder program than Michigan or CMU."

" Stay away from Cincy. Their inflated egos are larger than their chorus talent."


Notice any patterns? Lots of put downs of programs, colleges, and posters. That is what some readers are taking to task.

FYI,
Erinrebecca never attended any of the summer programs being bashed.

Triplethreat and Zoran have gone to OCU and want the OCU "trolls" to stop bashing other programs as it reflects poorly on OCU and embarrasses them.

Dr. Herendeen also felt compelled to post to ask those who are posting saying OCU is better than this or that "bad" program to stop trashing other programs. He doesn't want these type of posters to speak for OCU understandably.

WaitingforKathy, WSS2 and Mr. Tuttle may not have not attended (their posts speak about friends attending) OCU, but speak for it. For that matter, they don't appear to have attended the programs they put down in the wake of shilling for OCU either. Fortunately, none of these offensive posters spoke in ANY official capacity for OCU. In fact, it appears that some of them have never even attended.
Those who attend other programs, on this thread and elsewhere, discuss why they like their programs but do not put other programs down in order to do so.

Unfortunately, the folks who were behaving inappropriately on this thread seem to think my response is due to having had a child attend Stagedoor Manor. But my responses would have been the same no matter what program was put down. It was the attitude involved. There were some posters on the thread who actually haven't attended any of these programs and have no bias who have attempted to call these posters out on the attitude and so I am not the only one thinking poorly of this behavior and my opinion has nothing to with that my kid happened to go to SDM for 8 years. I simply don't mind if another child did not like it. Some who are putting Stagedoor down to elevate another program, have no first hand knowledge of SDM, let alone of OCU, on top of it all. What happens with some of the OCU-loving posters all over this forum and elsewhere is that these individuals can't seem to talk about OCU on its own fine merits without having to say it is better than other programs. That is too bad because the message would be way more valid if they simply described what was good about OCU. That would be very welcomed.

By the way, the accusations of staff from SDM posting here is utterly false. Nobody on this thread is affiliated with SDM in any official capacity and are merely campers or parents of campers. SDM doesn’t even know about this thread! Trust me, they wouldn’t be concerned about it.

It is very childish to have to boost your own thing by saying, in essence, “nah nah n nah nah, mine is better than yours!” A more mature approach would be to describe your own program and say what is great about it and offer to answer questions. If you picked it over another program, explain why. If you have to put down another program to do that, it truly reveals something about your maturity and respect. The pattern of this type of posting has gone on within several threads here and so posters are finally saying enough is enough.

I hope that those who have posted in this fashion will stop now, given that Dr. Herendeen himself has asked you to do so. His program doesn't deserve the impression you are projecting.

Updated On: 7/31/07 at 01:16 AM

[DoReMi]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 12:54pm

Funny Soozie...you go on and on about other people trashing people's opinions but say nothing about the fact that jg started this whole controversy by trashing the original poster. When are you going to admit that he was wrong?

It's obvious that jg started this whole thing but you still won't admit it. Just look at the start of this thread and see clearly who was the firsts person to put someone down. But you defend him to the end. That makes you just as gulity.

Of course jg won't apologize for starting this whole thing. Just look at his response. Better yet, just look at the start of the thread. He talks about how others degrade other posters, but never once bothers to address why he degraded the inital poster. Apparently, he thinks that's just fine. A bully is a bully...no matter what they say. He bullied someone by calling their opinion wrong.

And to re-quote you, it seems you don't understand proper behavior. You go blabbing on about how others have trashed other's opinions, but you never bother to address the root of this problem which is why jg was rude to the inital poster who only shared her thoughts. You talk about how people here have been immature,but you fail to own up to the fact that the immature post of jg is what started this. Why is that? You've had plenty of opportunities to do so. Instead, we get another one of your essays which blames everyone else for the obvious problem that jg started.

And I love it, Soozie, that you have all the time in the world to sit around and go through numerous threads to, apparentlly, pick out some real "mean" and "immature" quotes that Kathy and others have posted before about the OCU program. Such degrading quotes as:

"Congrats to my friend who posts here for getting into the OCU musical theater program. I wanted nto audition but waited to long and they're full. Darn! She got a great scholarship too and gets to do Les Miz. I know she'll have a great time since it's the best camp in the US.

Or how about this horrific one:

(re: OCU Summer music program): "they got over 200 hundred audition and less than half were admitted. Wow. Move over CMU!"

So, basically you've proved that your jealious of the good messages that OCU has received on this board. I guess members are unable to post their thoughts and opinions. Good to know you're in charge. I'm sure you'll have another essay coming out way all about this. Can't wait.

But, as stated, it's a Stagedoor shill being "protected" by other Stagedoor folks. They love to hear themselves talk and talk and talk about nothing. And Soozie, how do you know that Stagedoor personnel are not posting here? Just because, as you say, "you know" they wouldn't? We are suppose to just believe you? Please. That's about a credible as jg.

It's funny. When it comes to pointing the TRUTH in their faces, you Stagedoor people go talking in circles and avoid the truth. You and jg owe WaitingForKathy a huge apology for starting and continuing and prolonging this whole situation. She was nice to share her friend's opinions and you have gone out of your way to discredit her.

So, Soozie and jg...when are you going to admit that jg was wrong?












Updated On: 7/31/07 at 12:54 PM

[jg4892]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 1:47pm

I know two rights don't make a wrong, but I don't go around trashing programs and people just for fun. I was talking to waitingforkathy in RESPONSE to all the posts you ocu "promoters" make degrading other programs. So you can say I'm wrong all you want, but it's YOU that's skipping around the real problem and going straight to me. The argument is not about me, doremi. I said what I'm sure many other posters were thinking, and you attack me and blame me for starting the whole thing. You start it when you make these posts, and I was just responding to them. How did I "degrade" waitingforkathy? I told her/him I was upset with the way he kept putting down other programs. You want to talk about degrading? Talk to mr. Tuttle about calling me a talentless, mean, idiot. That's laughable that you say I was degrading when you don't even acknowledge that. You STILL don't get it. I don't think waitingforkathy's opinion is wrong. I'm sure OCU is an amazing program. What I DON'T like is why you guys have to put down other programs. That's not being a bully. First of all, the two quotes you posted are the only ones that aren't mean and ridiculous. So your "evidence" doesn't quite fly there. I don't have to apologize for anything. This is the first time I've spoken up about my feelings, where you guys have spoken about your dislike for the other programs manyyyy times. Where's my apology? You seriously make me laugh. You keep talking about how no one is acknowledging the "problem", or me. YOU'RE the one who's not acknowledging the real problem. You somehow can't seem to talk about the good in OCU without degrading other programs. Maybe you have doubts in the program after all. That's the real problem.

[Soozie]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 1:54pm

DoReMi....My responses on this thread are about not only what I observe on this thread but on many other BWW threads by these same OCU trolls. I even quoted in my post last night, a series of statements by these shills for OCU from SEVERAL threads, not just this one. Also, the put downs of other programs were NOT JUST about Stagedoor Manor, but about other colleges and summer programs. Further, I have observed both on BWW and elsewhere on the internet on other forums, some people from OCU constantly advertising and promoting the progarm on message boards. I do not observe this with ANY OTHER college or summer program. I see people on message boards sharing their experiences and knowledge about the programs they have experience with. I only wish the OCU folks did the same. I don't see those who have experience with other programs bashing OCU whatsoever. The patterns with SOME OCU posters (who don't even all seem to have even attended!) is to not just talk of the program but to put down others at the same time. That is what I am discussing.

It was not the FIRST post on this thread that was very problematic. It is the overall trend on many many posts on many threads on BWW and elsewhere on the internet by particular individuals. Jg didn't start anything. Observers of the posts were saying, "enough is enough, must every post you put up have to denigrate another program and say yours is the best of all, and can't you just talk of your own program? Better yet, talk of programs you have actually attended, not your "friend." Don't put down other progams just to elevate your own. Refrain from offensive remarks about programs or colleges you have never attended." I did not see jg "trash" anyone. I saw him/her asking these very questions and making a request after reading yet ANOTHER of these same kinds of posts after SOOOOO many of these on BWW over time and elsewhere on the internet.

I have quoted above, several very offensive remarks from posts by WSS, WaitingforKathy, and Mr. Tuttle. Everyone is responsible for their own behavior. I can't imagine anyone defending the remarks I have quoted. I have not seen offensive remarks of this nature by posters who attend other colleges, summer programs, or even posters here who haven't gone to any of these but ALSO find such posts to be discourteous. Even Dr. Herendeen himself is concerned to have posts like that all over the internet which puts his EXCELLENT program (notice I have praised OCU in every post.....cannot say that for the offensive OCU posters' posts vice versa about other programs), in a negative light because readers are getting a poor message about OCU from the ATTITUDES presented by its so called "promoters." I'm trying to HELP OCU by requesting them to stop. I see Zoran and triplethreat who have actually attended either the summer or BM progam at OCU also saying, PLEASE STOP posting "OCU is better than X, Y, or Z"!

You want me to address that jg was "rude" according to you but I have not found his/her posts to be rude. This is NOT about Stagedoor for me at all. I find the posts that I quoted above that put down BOCO, CMU, UMich, NYU, and CCM just as offensive. (interesting pattern, btw, to keep desiring attacking the renowned progams in the field) I also think the posts are quite invalid when the shills have not attended the places they are putting down. It is not fair to those who want to LEARN about ALL of these fine programs some real first hand information about what they are like. I would much rather see a discusssion of people sharing what they know about a program first hand and let the readers decide for themselves which ones they may wish to explore further.

I'm not "protecting" jg. I don't even know jg! I came on the thread and agreed with erinrebecca who never went to Stagedoor or any summer pre-college program either! So much for your theory. I also agree with Dr. Herendeen, triplethreat, and Zoran (and others too) and they are not Stagedoorians. This isn't about SDM for me. I'd say the same if the OCU shills were denigrating Cherubs at Northwestern, CMU pre-college, Broadway Theater Project, etc. in order to elevate and promote their program.

No SDM staff are posting on this thread. The only SDM people appear to be Jg (who went to SDM at some point.....this summer? and is in high school) and me, a parent of a long time camper who is now in a BFA program for musical theater. Can you point to anyone on this thread from SDM officially? I think not. SDM also doesn't plaster internet message boards about its program. It doesn't have to use the free advertising of a message board. Its reputation stands on its own feet. They don't have to worry about if someone bashes SDM. They are turning away people in droves. They get free publicity in national publications and the media. Alum are in all facets of the industry. However, in the past, there was someone from OCU who plastered another message board with advertising, promotional posts, and announcements. That is not what a message board is for. With OTHER programs, participants are SHARING experiences and helping others who want ot learn more. They are not putting down other programs. They are not advertising their program or trolling for the program. If there is an EXISTING discussion on their program/college, they join in and offer what they know, as it should be. I'd love to see OCU participants do likewise.

I am not the only one who has observed this trend, not only on this thread but elsewhere. The nasty posts speak for themselves. LOUDLY. I'm concerned on OCU"s behalf. I recommend this program as a college advisor. Posts like I see from some OCU proponents are HURTING the view that I can offer prospective students. It is off putting. That is a shame. I could care less if you like SDM. That is NOT the point for me at all. OCU doesn't deserve this image some posters are portraying ironically on its "behalf" and the programs these posters are denigrating do not deserve the wildly skewed bashing and information being put out there, when the posters making such claims have no first hand experience of the programs being bashed. Further, programs/colleges aside, if you look at the quotes I posted above, some are down right nasty attacks of other POSTERS, not programs. Discussing "who started it" is childish. Each poster is responsible for his/her own posts and behavior. I haven't stooped to the level of bashing any poster or program. I would hope that others can respect the request that their posts refrain as well. Not one poster here has put down OCU's PROGRAMS. I wish I could say the same in reverse. This is so clear to anyone reading this thread!
Updated On: 7/31/07 at 01:54 PM