Queer Misogyny

[Kringas]

Posted: 5/11/06 at 11:09pm

"More times than I would like to recount, however, I have witnessed exclusively gay male partygoers descend into discussions about their disdain of vaginas and women’s bodies in general. Even the most sexist straight guy would probably blush at the unchecked misogyny in queer-told jokes about vaginal penetration and/or menstruation. If you are a gay man who claims that he has never witnessed this type of discussion within a circle of gay male friends, you are either lying or not paying attention."

Interesting blog entry about something on which I've often dwelled. It's given some validation to the creepiness I always tend to feel when I hear a gay man use the word "fish" to refer to a woman's genitals or when he squeals with disgust at the sight of a naked women.

I often wonder if I'm too sensitive to stuff like this, but it's always encouraging when I read that others share the sentiment.
Center of Gravitas - Queer Misogyny

[Unknown User]

Posted: 5/11/06 at 11:17pm

Kringas, you are too sensitive but that's a good thing.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 5/11/06 at 11:18pm

I agree with you, Kring.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 5/11/06 at 11:20pm

You bring up a very important topic.

I have often felt a relation to this very subject and the way Corine2 has been treated on this very message board in some threads.

Gay men have not occupied such a secure political position in society that they can afford to alienate women, who can vote for or against gay men's rights and who also sit on juries and as judges to decide cases. Do gay men really, when they think about it, want to alienate more than 50 percent of the population with this kind of behavior?

Why should women support gay men when they engage in abusive and disrespectful conduct toward them?

These same women were unselfish enough to carry and give birth to and raise these same gay men and thus give them their very lives?

[Unknown User]

Posted: 5/11/06 at 11:22pm

also Kringas, the type of guy who is always saying fish and denigrating women is not the type of guy I would hang out with.

[wonderwaiter]

Posted: 5/11/06 at 11:28pm

Usually, when I am around people who would say things like that, I'm in a bar, so that's about the time I suddenly "need to refresh my drink." While there are certainly some individuals whom I would never WANT to see naked, that has less to do with gender and more to do with the individual.

When I have, in the past, made such a joke it has been to a female friend who KNEW I was joking. I try not to associate with people who do otherwise. It's just not a healthy mindset.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/11/06 at 11:55pm

I thought this kind of thing died out with the 1950s pre-Stonewall generation. Do young gay guys really call women fish?

The gay men I hang out with have always tended more toward putting women on pedestals or worshiping them as island goddesses.

[brdlwyr]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 12:06am

On this board I see rants about gay marriage, but little support for Roe v. Wade. The right of privacy should apply to all!

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 12:10am

And you are saying, brdlwyr, that to leave out discussion and acknowledgement of freedom of choice rights is mysogynistic?

Are you saying that gay men should be concerned about women's rights, including the right to freedom of choice, as well as their own?

In other words, see beyond their own dicks?

[brdlwyr]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 12:23am

All men and women should be concerned about the right to privacy!

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 12:26am

We are actually on the topic of gay men being mysogynistic or against women, brdlwyr.

That's why I was trying to see what the tie-in was with your right to privacy comment and this subject.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 12:57am

I find that kind of behavior to be absolutely revolting. Gay men who "gross out" over women are just as pitiful and childish as straight men who "gross out" over other men.

It's all about confidence with yourself and your sexuality.

[MatthewAddison]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 1:16am

Well, it's because "gays" secretly crave C-food.

So they are simply trying to cover up the fact they are sinners in the hands of SATAN-ah, BEZELBUB-ah, THE UNHOLY MASTER OF THE UNDERWORLDS-ah. AND WHEN THE GOOD LORD JESUS CHRIST-ah DESCENDS FROM HIS PEARLY STAIRCASE FROM THE GREAT HETEROSEXUAL GOD-FEARIN' HEAVENS, ALL MANKIND WILL BE SNACKING AT V'S DINER.

I mean, that's all.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 1:23am

No, it's not a joke.

Misogyny is an often unaddressed problem in the gay male community.

[MatthewAddison]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 1:37am

Well, I was specifically targeting the original comment.

But YOUR follow-up does bring up an interesting point.

However, for my personal decision making, gender is not and never will be an issue.

So continue with your "serious" discussion...


Edit: Fixed a comma (,) error. Updated On: 5/12/06 at 01:37 AM

[NYadgal]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 1:42am

It's a very 'serious' discussion.

And I thank Kringas for bringing it up.

Having recently been referred to as the "C-word" by someone who is old enough to 'know better', I can attest to the misogynistic hatred that is still very real, and very hurtful.

I fear that society is taking one step forward. Many steps back...

[bongoboy]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 1:47am

"Gay men have not occupied such a secure political position in society that they can afford to alienate women, who can vote for or against gay men's rights and who also sit on juries and as judges to decide cases. Do gay men really, when they think about it, want to alienate more than 50 percent of the population with this kind of behavior?"

The idea that any woman or person would vote AGAINST an entire "group's" (for lack of a better word at this 'mo ment) rights because of one (or more) jerk(s) WHITHIN said group is ludicrous. Assholes are everywhere. We've all got one.

I would NEVER live my life worrying about offending anybody for a vote.

[NYadgal]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 1:52am

But, do you speak out AGAINST something which you think is wrong?

I DO worry about offending people.
And my vote is one way which I have to speak out against such offenses.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 1:56am

"The idea that any woman or person would vote AGAINST an entire "group's" (for lack of a better word at this 'mo ment) rights because of one (or more) jerk(s) WHITHIN said group is ludicrous."

But that is exactly the point. It is groups of gay men exhibiting mysogyny that reflects upon all gay men, and don't think it doesn't when people make decisions as to how they are going to stand about gay rights.

That's why gay men, like some of the ones who have posted in this thread, have to stand up and counter that very destructive, yet often unchallenged behavior.

[bongoboy]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 1:57am

of course...said behavior stinks...that goes without saying. to vote against an ENTIRE group because of some bad apples is wrong.

i would never vote against any entire groups rights because of stupid individual behavior within the group.

i have dealt with the reverse of queer misogyny my entire life and will continue to deal w/ it until i'm dead...it doesn't mean i'm going to vote against straight people...or the religion, race, sex or sexual orientation of the person(s) who engage in the behavior.
Updated On: 5/12/06 at 01:57 AM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 1:57am

I will say, for the record (because I have done this myself) that sometimes the use of the c word is not meant as misogynist because the word is not intended as gender specific. It's merely a word choice.

However, knowing after the fact that the word carries a misogynist connotation, I do not use it to refer to women if possible.

[NYadgal]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:05am

...words represent feelings.

In my opinion, there is NEVER a time when using a word which represents hurtful attitudes is acceptable.


One small part of this discussion...

Updated On: 5/12/06 at 02:05 AM

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:06am

When I heard a gay man call a woman the "c" word on a bus I looked right at him and said very sarcastically to him "faggy, faggy," referring to his behavior.

He blanched because he was shocked that I just knew he was gay and the people around me cracked up, because then they got what the true source of his behavior was. He was not able, therefore, to succeed in humilating or insulting the woman, which was his goal (over some imagined slight).

I don't know if what I did was right or wrong but it resolved the situation favorably and he slinked off the bus with some woman friend (or his sister) that he was with who wasn't thrilled with his behavior either.

The use of the "c" word is a swear and derogatory toward an important part of a woman's anatomy, the part which most makes her female, and is never acceptable.

[bongoboy]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:10am

use of the c word is acceptable. anytime. anywhere. please. of course whoever uses it has to deal with the consequences, like your buddy on the bus, nom. jrby was very clear to say that he would not say it around women.

you live in america folks...where you can say whatever you want. appreciate it. you shouldn't censor or judge.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:14am

He wasn't my buddy.

Were I not restrained by manners and such, I would have literally tossed him off the bus.