Sean Hayes betrays gays AGAIN- Page 3

[midtowngym]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 9:57am

Be careful Craig. Your sensitivity and compassion makes you quite attractive.
Wanna go horseback riding in Wyoming?

[lildogs]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 9:57am

The weird thing is, coming out DOESN'T hurt some people--Ellen was far more successful after she came out, Nathan has achieved more since he came out, Margaret Cho...there are several. I can see why a sex symbol might want to stay closeted for fear of repercussions, but I don't think Sean or Clay fits into that category. I speak of the Brad Pitts, the Matt McConagheys, you know. I just can't see how coming out would hurt Sean at all, I daresay most people assume he is anyway.

[Princeton78]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 9:58am

midtown..hehe..that made my morning.

[Craig]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 10:05am

lildogs-

But Ellen's show did TANK after she came out. She left the spotlight for awhile and re-emerged to success.

And while I might agree that coming out affects some more than others career-wise. That's not "our" decision to make. Everyone regardless of who they are or what they do has the right to choose for themselves whether or not they are out. And I would argue against Clay not having reprecussions for coming out. He's a performer in the music industry and probably has millions of women lusting after him - coming out could definitely affect his audience.

Also - people have weird notions of "celebrating" being out. Can't someone be out but just not make a deal out of it? Why does a celebrity who happens to be gay be an advocate - or spokesperson or "flaunt" their gayness?

Maybe this is a heterosexual viewpoint - but I don't go around "flaunting" I'm straight. Why should someone who's gay be any different - or "have" to be different.

And lildogs - you inadvertantly proved my point to a degree "And I know many people of note who throw fits, make crazy demands---hell, I know people of NO note who do that. "

Exactly. Celebrity or not - people are people.

Celebrity can be like cocaine - it "enhances" and "heightens" your personality. If your egotistical or demanding from the get go - being a celebrity is only going to enhance that (most likely). But that's not true for all...

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 10:13am

I'm just disgusted that Britney's trying to act again.

[Craig]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 10:15am

Again? :)

[lildogs]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 10:18am

That last bit was more of a joke...ah well...

But Ellen's talk show is FAR more successful than her sitcom, which I stopped watching because it wasn't funny anymore.

And Craig, you don't have to flaunt your sexuality because you have historical and social acceptance and have never had to deny, cure or in any way alter your sexuality to suit the needs of others. But there are millions of people who think they don't know any gays and it makes it easier for them to be bigoted and phobic. I have no illusions that Clay Aiken coming out would cure homophobia, but I do think it might make a dent in it. And just like the civil rights fighters in the 40s, 50s and 60s, sometimes we have to take one for the team. If I was in a position of fame or power, you bet I'd do what I could to trigger social change.

It's just frustrating when people in the entertainment industry stay mum considering the disproportionate number of homosexuals who work in show bidness. I always think when I see actors: what happened to all the gays that were in the film and theatre depts all over this country? I feel the same way about the military.

[NYadgal]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 10:22am

lildogs, I agree with you that public awareness and acceptance needs to be changed, and that putting a public face on an issue can do a great deal to move an issue forward.

My point is that it should be up to the individual if he/she wants to make their private story public, and sign on for the cause.

Nobody has the right to take that away from them.

[DG]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 10:24am

Why is it that a discussion about a celebrity coming out only references how it will or will not affect their career? They may be celebrities, but they're also just human beings, with lives, relationships and parameters that have nothing to do with their career.

I find it incredible that people are willing to demand a choice from someone that could have ramifications far past what we can see. If someone tried to force that kind of action on me - for ANY reason - I'm afraid my reaction would jeopardize my passive reputation.

[Craig]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 10:27am

Not to be contrary - but that's you and your opinion. And I think it's great that if you were a major celeb, that's what you'd do. But that's your choice, no? You really can't condemn people for making personal choices. And that's what sexuality is - personal.

I know this isn't the same thing - so don't think I am say it is - but should celebs be "outed" if they believe in g-d or not? I mean - imagine all the legions of fans who are uber-religious who learn that their fav. celebrity doesn't believe? And look at the celebrities that do flaunt their religious beliefs that gets criticized for it because of any little thing that they do that others perceive as contradictory.

Again - not the same thing - although people have been persecuted for religious beliefs for at least as long :) I can see all sides and agree with most opinions - but at the end of the day - it's a personal choice.

[midtowngym]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 10:28am

This conversation almost brings tears to my eyes, and lots of memories. A Queer Nation meeting, circa 1991 with Michaelangelo Signorile in the room discussing the outing of Pete Smith.

Updated On: 2/1/06 at 10:28 AM

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 10:29am

Exactly D. When YOU have been fired for admitting that you are gay, when YOU have been gay bashed for being openly gay, when YOU have not been given an opportunity because you are openly gay, then you can talk to me about outing someone who may suffer REAL consequences.
Updated On: 2/1/06 at 10:29 AM

[Craig]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 10:29am

DG. Well said. And I agree - hence my continued posting in this thread. Not that you were singling me out - but in my 'defense' - I was responding to specific examples that were thrown out there.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 10:35am

while I don't like the guy, somehow I didn't think he has the power to decide who guest stars or not?

[NYadgal]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 10:44am

Similar conversations taking place on this thread and the Clay Aiken thread.

It's clearly an important topic, and I'm glad to see it being treated with respect.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 10:51am

Midtown--were you there too? It was Pete Williams, by the way, not Smith. He was Assistant Secretary of Defense.

And since those early, angry days of Queer Nation in the 1990s--when the issue was creating gay visibility to counteract the invisibility of the growing AIDS crisis--there's been a distinction made between outing celebrities and outing hypocritical politicians who are actually working against civil rights for gays and lesbians.

[lildogs]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 10:52am

Of course it's me and my opinion--as is every post. The difference to me between the sex and religion arguments is this: religion is a conscious choice whereas sexuality is not. I see what you're saying, but performers are in a sexualized business, where beauty and sex MATTER A LOT. (Place tacky joke about Catholic priests and sex here)

Hey, I'm just saying what I'd do if I was Sean...I'm not demanding a choice from him at all. I just don't get it. But the reality is people want to know. I don't care because I have no sexual interest in Clay or Sean, I just find it borderline funny that THESE TWO guys aren't open.

And I doubt Sean or Clay would have any real danger to their lives if they came out--of course we'll always have nuts like Chapman who hurt celebs--it's been my experience that the public is so thrilled to meet a famous person, any thoughts about what he might do in bed quickly fade away in favor of starfvcking.

[Pippin]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 11:16am

sorry to but in, but I don't get the opening argument. if you had read the whole article about the upcoming episode, jack's network, called "out tv" is bought by a christian conservative network, and Britney is brough on his show, where of course hilarity ensues.

how is jack a.k.a sean hayes betraying anything? his network was bought, it's not like he invited the conservatives to come on his show.

and one more thing, someone mentioned earlier that gays and christians should not hang out together. that is just the same facist attitude that they have against us. how do you expect anything to change for the better if you both share the same contemptible attitudes toward each other?

[lildogs]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 11:24am

I have contempt for people in general, Pippin, so don't include me.

I agree that the thread title is over the top, but it's BWW! That's our style...

[Elphaba]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 11:26am

the difference Pippen, is we (gays) do not advocate their (christians) death, deny them benefits and rights guarenteed to ALL other people in this country.
Don't get me wrong...I have several christian friends, and my sister, who is my best friend is christian....but for them my orientation has never been an issue.
Do they vote against me at the polls? Probably....but I also vote against them......

[lildogs]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 11:30am

Well put, Elphie...Dan Savage had said something similar in his column a week or two ago.

[NCGuy]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 11:35am

Pippin, the posts on the first page and a half of this thread are jokes in response to a previous thread.

[Pippin]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 11:38am

well, put egg on my face. I must be going through a very gullible phase today. sorry about that, fellow gays. just wanted to join in the convo, because I really like what you are all saying, and lil dogs, I do agree with you, actually. I guess I'm just one of those "can't we all just get along" people, even though in the back of my mind I know there never will be balance in this world, but dissonance is the spice of life, isn't it?

[MagicToDo82]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 11:42am

Pop star Britney Spears will guest star on hit TV show Will & Grace as a Christian talk show host. It will be the first primetime sitcom appearance for the singer and new mother. In the episode, the gay 'Out TV' network is bought by a Christian television station and Spears is brought in to play Sean Hayes' character Jack's new religious co-host. Spears will also host her own cooking segment on the newly revamped, fictitious religious show, called Cruci-fixin's. The Emmy Award-winning sitcom ends its eight-year run in May. During it's air time it has become known for landing high-profile pop guests, including Madonna, Sir Elton John, Janet Jackson and Cher. The singer's episode will be taped sometime this month and is scheduled to air on April 13.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 11:43am

Elphaba, I (Christian) do not advocate their (gays) deaths, deny them benefits and rights guaranteed to ALL other people in this country. Christianity is a religion, not a political party and it really bothers me when people on both sides try to make them on in the same.

I'd add more to this debate, but in similar discussions on this board, I've only been told that my opinion doesn't matter because I'm straight.