Sean Hayes betrays gays AGAIN- Page 5

Posted: 2/1/06 at 6:18pm

mistermatt?!!!!! Straight homophobes are more damaging to gays than gay men and women who constantly decide that they would rather stay in the closet and silent?

Updated On: 2/1/06 at 06:18 PM

[Jilani]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 6:20pm

"Flaunt" is also a relative term - I'm sure there are straight people who think two guys holding hands in public are "flaunting" the fact that they are gay, whereas they would think nothing of a straight couple doing the same thing.

Posted: 2/1/06 at 6:29pm

exactly! Most people would definitely think that two men holding hands in public is "flaunting" their sexuality. But if you are straight, hand holding is the most tame act of affection.
Updated On: 2/1/06 at 06:29 PM

[jacobtsf]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 8:18pm

"exactly! Most people would definitely think that two men holding hands in public is "flaunting" their sexuality. But if you are straight, hand holding is the most tame act of affection. "

Once again, if you don't want to be generalized why do you do it?

Posted: 2/1/06 at 8:20pm

You don't think hand holding is a very moderate form of public affection?

[jacobtsf]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 8:56pm

i think it is the tamest form of affection. You were implying that there are different rules for straights and gays in straights' eyes (or at least that is how I took it).

[justthefacts2]

Posted: 2/2/06 at 2:08am

Margo, thank you for your intelligent and much needed post. I could name so many others in exactly the position you describe.

By the way, I'm wondering would all those people who insist someone should be out whether or not they are ready to be please post their names, addresses and phone numbers next to their avatars in their very next post?

Posted: 2/2/06 at 3:19am

you're kidding, right?

[lildogs]

Posted: 2/2/06 at 10:19am

I'm out and proud--I'm not foolish enough to post personal information, but anyone who reads my posts KNOWS I am, I go to gay bars, belong to gay websites (and not the tame ones, either!), summer at Fire Island, and post on BWW. It doesn't get much more out than that.

Here's the difference between me and Sean (one of many): EVERYBODY knows who he is--nobody knows who I am. And nobody cares. He is in a position of power and influence that I could never imagine. I remember what people said when Rock announced he had AIDS--"now we all know someone with AIDS." I think that's kinda the same sentiment that many of us have with celebs coming out, not for OUR sake, but rather for others who need a little enlightenment, simple as that. That's why I don't think it's selfish to want higher visibility for 'mos.

[DG]

Posted: 2/2/06 at 10:27am

I don't know whether this has been asked yet or not (I've been reading the thread as it goes along, I just don't remember this) - why is it being assumed that Mr. Hayes is gay? As far as I know, there's been no public acknowledgement, and I don't think anyone has claimed to be a sex partner of his - so, other than the typical stereotyping and gaydar going haywire, why is it being assumed he is gay, and therefore being inappropriate by not coming out?

And if the only answer is, "Oh, PLEASE!", then I will pre-emptively say that's not an answer.

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 2/2/06 at 10:31am

This just in:

Wednesday's announcement that Britney Spears would be appearing on an upcoming episode of "Will & Grace" wasn't met with applause at the conservative Christian group American Family Association. Spears' character will apparently be a Christian TV host with a cooking segment called "Cruci-fixins." The AFA sees it as an attempt by NBC to "mock the Crucifixion of Christ," and "to further denigrate Christianity, it says, NBC chose to air the show the night before Good Friday." The group has now started a phone and e-mail campaign to get the episode dropped. (American Family Association via Perez Hilton, E! Online)

[lildogs]

Posted: 2/2/06 at 10:34am

I think this has gone way beyond Sean, DG. I think it's about the big picture, but then I usually think that.

"In the end, it's not breaking the code that matters. It's what you do from there that counts."

[DG]

Posted: 2/2/06 at 10:41am

I saw that, lil - and that's actually the discussion worth having.

But I've been bothered by the other and just thought I'd ask.

[lildogs]

Posted: 2/2/06 at 10:44am

I guess that's my point--I don't mean to pick on Sean per se, but it seems that IF he is gay, the choice to come out would be easier for him than some hot young thing. To paraphrase Quentin Crisp, people are turned off by homosexuality because they imagine themselves doing the "homosexual act," which I assume to mean Act II of My Fair Lady.

[DG]

Posted: 2/2/06 at 10:51am

lil - That interview segment from THE CELLULOID CLOSET always gets me - and it's so true!

And that MY FAIR LADY quip just made me guffaw

Posted: 2/2/06 at 12:32pm

re: Sean Hayes rocks.
Posted On: 1/30/06 at 01:56 PM


See, I don't think Sean Hayes has done anything for "gays." I think the character "Jack" has. And that's not just Sean Hayes but writers and directors and a network....

And if Sean Hayes is actually gay and he refuses to come out while playing "Jack" than I might have to agree with eslgr8.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not Chita Rivera, just a big fan.

[lildogs]

Posted: 2/2/06 at 12:46pm

I think Jack HAS done alot for gays, Sean Hayes hasn't done much either way really--I mean he's done some charity work and some PSAs, but I wouldn't say he's done any more than any other celeb who does charity work. And I daresay he rakes it in on W&G. Not to mention the shelf of awards he's won with the role.

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 2/2/06 at 12:51pm

Just out of curiosity...What has the character of JACK done other than to perpetuate nearly every sterotype associated with gay men?

[lildogs]

Posted: 2/2/06 at 12:57pm

This is just my view as a guy from small-town Texas and that's where I think Jack has helped. People laugh at Jack, but they also love him. I'd wager if a poll was taken (no comments from the Peanut Gallery please), Jack would end up in the Top Ten, maybe Top Five Favorite TV characters. I think laughter can assuage hatred and ignorance, just like Mel Brooks does when he tweaks the Nazis. It has introduced people to aspects of gay culture that they'd never know otherwise. I have actually heard people say "That Jack's okay for a homo." A small step granted, but it IS a step forward, tentative though it may be.

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 2/2/06 at 1:02pm

The same can be said for the "Steppin' Fetchits" and the "Amos and Andy's" or an earlier era. But I bet all those people who thought they were funny sure didn't want them moving in next door.

[lildogs]

Posted: 2/2/06 at 2:20pm

I'm not sure I buy THAT comparison, but I see your point--BUT I'm not so naive to think that because people like Jack they want him for a neighbor--I said a small step--like not killing gay people or firing them...I'll give Cleetus a few more years before he's ready to swap recipes with Jack.

As for the Amos n' Andy argument: These are characters created by white people for a white audience, and A&A were actually played by white people. W&G was created by gay people for straight people, meaning "we" get to control the image of gay people, not the other way around. And I think to dismiss Jack as a stereotype is to deny a vital part of gay life: CAMP. Just ask Tony Kushner--I think he'd back me up on this.

Posted: 2/2/06 at 2:43pm

And along that line of thought, and please lord I'm not trying to be controversial, don't you think the characters would have more "weight" if the actors portraying them were out and proud gay men? Just a thought.
(no sarcasm in this post, just trying to dig a little further) Updated On: 2/2/06 at 02:43 PM

[Elphaba]

Posted: 2/2/06 at 2:48pm

"That Jack's okay for a homo."


OH, that would set me off......that's a s bad as "some of my best friends are _____"

it is still a homophobic comment, and implies that homos are NOT ok.

[lildogs]

Posted: 2/2/06 at 2:56pm

I think they'd assume he's not "really acting." As for ME, I don't know. I don't think being out made Ian McKellen any better or worse, though I think sometimes we might project depth onto a performance if we know it has a special resonance for the performer--kind of like when you see a final performance by a Bway actor--there's something a little more intangible about the performance if you know it's the last one.

[robbiej]

Posted: 2/2/06 at 2:58pm

Personally, I know that the character of Jack and the popularity of the Queer Eye guys have made the concept of what 'gay' is much more accessible to my nieces and nephews, who range in ages 5-19 (I have 9 of them...good Catholics are we). They are exposed to the concept is a positive way. Whether we think they are positive in the big picture is something entirely different. And because I'm more Jack McFarland than Jack Twist, it allows them to make some sort of correlation between the people they see on TV and their real-life uncle...who also happens to be in a great relationship with a funny, warm, amazing man.

So yes...I think the characters of Jack and the QE guys CAN help. As long as they are balanced by images of all different types of gay people...both on screen and in life. Hence the importance of being out.

But I'd STILL never make that decision for anyone else...except, of course, bigoted, hypocritical politicians.