Serial Comma Rules

[javero]

Posted: 9/27/09 at 10:05pm

Someone please come to my defense. I'm drafting a system requirements document that is due by noon tomorrow. My editor, who is nearly half my age, does not like my habit of not using a friggin' comma "," before the last item in a series. An example follows.

There are four optional fields: w, x, y and z.

Lil' Miss Editor insists that I write the following.

The optional fields are w, x, y, and z.

She'll have to make the changes herself because I'm not about to parse through an 80-page document in search of missing serial commas.

Is this a generational thing or what? I was taught many years ago to avoid serial commas. The audience is made of super-techies who enumerate everything imaginable.

[nmartin]

Posted: 9/27/09 at 10:07pm

They are both correct.

[Calvin]

Posted: 9/27/09 at 10:09pm

The extra comma is contrary to AP style, if that helps.

[ashley0139]

Posted: 9/27/09 at 10:10pm

They are now teaching to leave out the comma. Personally, I much prefer to use the comma. It makes much more sense to me.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 9/27/09 at 10:13pm

I've always done it without the last comma.

I found this on Wikipdeia - "The differences of opinion on the use of the serial comma are well characterized by Lynne Truss in her popularized style guide Eats, Shoots & Leaves: "There are people who embrace the Oxford comma, and people who don't, and I'll just say this, never get between these people when drink has been taken.' "

Also, you lost a colon in the editing, too, it seems.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/27/09 at 10:14pm

It's not used in newspaper and magazine writing, but it is used in most academic and technical writing.

The AP and New York Times style guides don't use it, but the Chicago Manual of Style and Words into Type do.

Most major publishers usually use it for nonfiction but not for fiction.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 9/27/09 at 10:16pm

There you have it. Li'l Miss Editor was right!

[Jane2]

Posted: 9/27/09 at 10:25pm

Back in my day, we were taught not to use the last comma. However, I'm seeing more and more often that many of the rules I learned are now changed.

[Taryn]

Posted: 9/27/09 at 10:27pm

One day the Oxford Comma will rise up and crush those who have abandoned it. Be prepared.

[humbugfoto]

Posted: 9/27/09 at 10:34pm

In the early 60's in the LA Unified School District, we were taught to use the comma. At least partly because without it "y and z" implies a connection between y and z that is not there between w and x, and may not actually be there between y and z. Somewhere there are examples of how that can get confusing, but I'm too tired to look them up now.

[Jane2]

Posted: 9/27/09 at 10:36pm

I get what you're saying, humbug. Makes sense.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 9/27/09 at 10:46pm

The earlier poster that said that both correct gets my vote as an English teacher.

Personally: I hate the extra comma...I don't SAY it with a comma there, so I don't write it with a comma.

[millie_dillmount]

Posted: 9/27/09 at 11:46pm

Javero, I sympathize with you because it has become a habit of mine as well.

The extra comma in the series is also known as the Harvard comma or the Oxford comma.

Before I attended college, I used it all the time; however, my college (it was a communication school within a university) had a specific writing style its students had to follow. One of the rules in this style was to NOT use the Harvard comma. Ever since I learned it that way, it became a habit, and I never use the last comma in the series anymore.

The reasoning behind it is because in journalism, since you pause after each comma in a series, and each pause slows down the flow of reading (if that makes sense?), they just eliminate the Harvard comma to keep with the flow. Something like that. It is part of AP style and is the norm for newspaper articles.

Other than that, it is up to the individual as to whether or not he or she should use it. They are both correct depending on what writing style you are using. If you are unsure, ask your supervisor because it really varies according to each person. My advice is to just do a CTRL+F of every comma or "and" in your document and where there is a series, just add the extra comma in (if you decide to change it for her). It will still be a lengthy process, but at least you won't have to thoroughly read the 80-page document. Good luck!

Updated On: 9/27/09 at 11:46 PM

[best12bars]

Posted: 9/28/09 at 12:42am

I go by the Chicago Rules of Style, so I put it in. The only time I leave it out is when the two items should naturally be paired together.

Example:

For lunch, I had my choice of ham, tuna salad, or peanut butter and jelly.

I like jazz, classical, rock and roll, and folk music.

Otherwise, I leave it in:

My favorite colors are red, blue, yellow, and green.

[best12bars]

Posted: 9/28/09 at 1:41am

As far as the possessive plural rule goes, I was always taught you didn't mess with a proper name by shaving off the extra "s." But if it's not a proper name, you leave it off.

Examples (proper name):

Chris's leg was broken.

Janis's hair was long.

But leave it off otherwise:

The boys' clothes needed washing.

The actors' dressing rooms were underneath the stage.

[Q]

Posted: 9/28/09 at 2:27am

That possessive plural is a new one to me. Having a name that ends in 's', I've never seen or used the extra 's'.

[javero]

Posted: 9/28/09 at 2:34am

Thanks, all!

I'm still at it btw, argh!

[tazber]

Posted: 9/28/09 at 4:05am

Good luck Javero!

For the record I was taught ecactly like besty was.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 9/28/09 at 9:32am

I much prefer the serial comma, not least because there comes a time when you have to use it (e.g. "Jane, Tazber and Phyllis went to London"; did three people go, or am I telling Jane that the other two went?)

So if it's never wrong, and you sometimes must use it, why not be consistent?

[madbrian]

Posted: 9/28/09 at 9:40am

What Reg said.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/28/09 at 9:47am

Reginald, Phyllis and Tazber went to London without Jane?

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 9/28/09 at 9:52am

And either

A) They had a great time, though she was missed.

Or

B) OMG, did they really??? And why wasn't I invited?

Updated On: 9/28/09 at 09:52 AM

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 9/28/09 at 9:54am

I much prefer the serial comma, not least because there comes a time when you have to use it (e.g. "Jane, Tazber and Phyllis went to London"; did three people go, or am I telling Jane that the other two went?)

I would think that wouldn't be that confusing, though. If you're talking to Jane Jane would know she's being addressed. If you were addressing someone other than Jane that would also be understood.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/28/09 at 9:54am

You only use it for Jesus's. That's the rule.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 9/28/09 at 9:56am

But, Phyllis, you wouldn't know that if it were the opening line of a chapter.

I imagine you'd figure it out eventually, depending on what followed. But again, I'd prefer to avoid ambiguity altogether (unless that's what you're going for).