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#1

Serial Comma Rules

Someone please come to my defense. I'm drafting a system requirements document that is due by noon tomorrow. My editor, who is nearly half my age, does not like my habit of not using a friggin' comma "," before the last item in a series. An example follows.

There are four optional fields: w, x, y and z.

Lil' Miss Editor insists that I write the following.

The optional fields are w, x, y, and z.

She'll have to make the changes herself because I'm not about to parse through an 80-page document in search of missing serial commas.

Is this a generational thing or what? I was taught many years ago to avoid serial commas. The audience is made of super-techies who enumerate everything imaginable.
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#2

re: Serial Comma Rules

They are both correct.
#3

re: Serial Comma Rules

The extra comma is contrary to AP style, if that helps.
#4

re: Serial Comma Rules

They are now teaching to leave out the comma. Personally, I much prefer to use the comma. It makes much more sense to me.
"This table, he is over one hundred years old. If I could, I would take an old gramophone needle and run it along the surface of the wood. To hear the music of the voices. All that was said." - Doug Wright, I Am My Own Wife
#5

re: Serial Comma Rules

I've always done it without the last comma.

I found this on Wikipdeia - "The differences of opinion on the use of the serial comma are well characterized by Lynne Truss in her popularized style guide Eats, Shoots & Leaves: "There are people who embrace the Oxford comma, and people who don't, and I'll just say this, never get between these people when drink has been taken.' "

Also, you lost a colon in the editing, too, it seems.
#6

re: Serial Comma Rules

It's not used in newspaper and magazine writing, but it is used in most academic and technical writing.

The AP and New York Times style guides don't use it, but the Chicago Manual of Style and Words into Type do.

Most major publishers usually use it for nonfiction but not for fiction.
#7

re: Serial Comma Rules

There you have it. Li'l Miss Editor was right!
#8

re: Serial Comma Rules

Back in my day, we were taught not to use the last comma. However, I'm seeing more and more often that many of the rules I learned are now changed.
<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES
#9

re: Serial Comma Rules

One day the Oxford Comma will rise up and crush those who have abandoned it. Be prepared.
#10

re: Serial Comma Rules

In the early 60's in the LA Unified School District, we were taught to use the comma. At least partly because without it "y and z" implies a connection between y and z that is not there between w and x, and may not actually be there between y and z. Somewhere there are examples of how that can get confusing, but I'm too tired to look them up now.
Sarcasm is an allergic reaction to stupid people.
#11

re: Serial Comma Rules

I get what you're saying, humbug. Makes sense.
<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES
#12

re: Serial Comma Rules

The earlier poster that said that both correct gets my vote as an English teacher.

Personally: I hate the extra comma...I don't SAY it with a comma there, so I don't write it with a comma.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it? These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#13

re: Serial Comma Rules

Javero, I sympathize with you because it has become a habit of mine as well.

The extra comma in the series is also known as the Harvard comma or the Oxford comma.

Before I attended college, I used it all the time; however, my college (it was a communication school within a university) had a specific writing style its students had to follow. One of the rules in this style was to NOT use the Harvard comma. Ever since I learned it that way, it became a habit, and I never use the last comma in the series anymore.

The reasoning behind it is because in journalism, since you pause after each comma in a series, and each pause slows down the flow of reading (if that makes sense?), they just eliminate the Harvard comma to keep with the flow. Something like that. It is part of AP style and is the norm for newspaper articles.

Other than that, it is up to the individual as to whether or not he or she should use it. They are both correct depending on what writing style you are using. If you are unsure, ask your supervisor because it really varies according to each person. My advice is to just do a CTRL+F of every comma or "and" in your document and where there is a series, just add the extra comma in (if you decide to change it for her). It will still be a lengthy process, but at least you won't have to thoroughly read the 80-page document. Good luck!

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Updated On: 9/27/09 at 11:46 PM

#14

re: Serial Comma Rules

I go by the Chicago Rules of Style, so I put it in. The only time I leave it out is when the two items should naturally be paired together.

Example:

For lunch, I had my choice of ham, tuna salad, or peanut butter and jelly.

I like jazz, classical, rock and roll, and folk music.

Otherwise, I leave it in:

My favorite colors are red, blue, yellow, and green.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
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#15

re: Serial Comma Rules

As far as the possessive plural rule goes, I was always taught you didn't mess with a proper name by shaving off the extra "s." But if it's not a proper name, you leave it off.

Examples (proper name):

Chris's leg was broken.

Janis's hair was long.

But leave it off otherwise:

The boys' clothes needed washing.

The actors' dressing rooms were underneath the stage.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#16

re: Serial Comma Rules

That possessive plural is a new one to me. Having a name that ends in 's', I've never seen or used the extra 's'.
#17

re: Serial Comma Rules

Thanks, all!

I'm still at it btw, argh!
#FactsMatter...your feelings not so much.
#18

re: Serial Comma Rules

Good luck Javero!

For the record I was taught ecactly like besty was.


....but the world goes 'round
#19

re: Serial Comma Rules

I much prefer the serial comma, not least because there comes a time when you have to use it (e.g. "Jane, Tazber and Phyllis went to London"; did three people go, or am I telling Jane that the other two went?)

So if it's never wrong, and you sometimes must use it, why not be consistent?



#20

re: Serial Comma Rules

What Reg said.
"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg." -- Thomas Jefferson
#21

re: Serial Comma Rules

Reginald, Phyllis and Tazber went to London without Jane?
#22

re: Serial Comma Rules

And either

A) They had a great time, though she was missed.

Or

B) OMG, did they really??? And why wasn't I invited?

Updated On: 9/28/09 at 09:52 AM

#23

re: Serial Comma Rules

I much prefer the serial comma, not least because there comes a time when you have to use it (e.g. "Jane, Tazber and Phyllis went to London"; did three people go, or am I telling Jane that the other two went?)

I would think that wouldn't be that confusing, though. If you're talking to Jane Jane would know she's being addressed. If you were addressing someone other than Jane that would also be understood.
#24

re: Serial Comma Rules

You only use it for Jesus's. That's the rule.
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#25

re: Serial Comma Rules

But, Phyllis, you wouldn't know that if it were the opening line of a chapter.

I imagine you'd figure it out eventually, depending on what followed. But again, I'd prefer to avoid ambiguity altogether (unless that's what you're going for).

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