Should something be done about Charles Knipp/Shirley Q. Liquor?- Page 4
Should something be done about Charles Knipp/Shirley Q. Liquor?
#75don't just sit there, do something!
Posted: 1/7/09 at 1:46pm
I think Namo has used the magical key phrase: "in this culture." As I was saying to Phyllis, in a moral sense I think what Sacha Baron Cohen (for example) does is not unlike what Knipp does. It's just that in our culture Kazakhstanis carry no particular resonance as a victimized people.
And while Ru Paul is by no means the spokesperson for African Americans, her approval would indicate that it's not a cut-dried-equation of "enjoying Shirley Q = celebrating your own racism."
Not to dilute this issue too much, but I've often had a similar reaction to any ol' drag act: they often seem to me misogynistic and playing on the fear of women. But I'm always told "No, it celebrates women." But I still squirm.
For the record, I wouldn't go see Shirley Q, but I probably wouldn't go see Ru Paul either.
#76don't just sit there, do something!
Posted: 1/7/09 at 2:05pm
"How is the latter censorship? Isn't it just a consequence of exercising free speech?"
To me, it's pre-emptive censorship when it's designed to make an example out of one bad actor. In effect, by going after an employee who disparages a company in print, the company attempts to squelch further disclosures.
At the federal and state government levels, there usually are whistleblower protections in place but they rarely extend to the private sector. In industry, you snitch at your own peril.
To me, censorship takes on many forms and can be pre-emptive, explicit or implied depending on the context and method of suppression or redaction.
In the case of Knipp, my greater concern is the potential restraint of trade imposed by his detractors. Countless Americans have claimed that China and Syria's censorship of select US websites and print matter is tantamount to illegal restraint of trade. I'd like to know what specific type of "threats" were made by Ms Cannick.
I'm probably splitting hairs here which this board tends to induce but believe we need to broaden our definition of censorship a wee bit.
Let me consult with the Oracle on the topic, Wikipedia that is.
Wikipedia defines "censorship"
#77don't just sit there, do something!
Posted: 1/7/09 at 2:30pm
To be honest, my first time hearing Shirley Q. Liquor I knew it was a man impersonating a woman. I thought it was pretty stupid and not that funny, but dismissed it because I had heard worse on BET's ComicView alone. It wasn't until I clicked on the link to the website and actually saw what she looked like that I was shocked.
As a black female, at first it was kind of upsetting but it wasn't enough for me to go up in arms about. I think the only way I can feel truly upset about this is if indeed, Knipps was a racist and black women were being mocked to an audience who catered to that kind of hateful entertainment. But I don't think he's a racist, and everyone I've spoken to agrees he's not funny. Not because the jokes themselves aren't hilarious, but because it's a white man in black face.
I don't and never will find anyone doing anything in blackface funny, which is why I can only come up with the assumption that Knipps should take a cue from another fat white comic pal of his, Ralphie May, and deliver these lines sans the makeup.
MrMidwest
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/8/05
#78don't just sit there, do something!
Posted: 1/7/09 at 2:51pm
I'd like to know what specific type of "threats" were made by Ms Cannick.
In March Cannick and talk radio's "Bev Smith Show" launched a national campaign to ban Charles Knipp's act and has so far collected almost a thousand signatures for a petition to ban blackface performances "that mock the plight and lives of African American men and women."
http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm?aid=3651
I think what Sacha Baron Cohen (for example) does is not unlike what Knipp does.
I could understand someone taking offense at what Cohen does, but don't you think that some of the truths that he reveals about America are interesting? What truths does Knipp reveal?
#79don't just sit there, do something!
Posted: 1/7/09 at 3:00pm
Re Cohen, I do think what you say is true, Mr. Midwest, in his confrontations with people.
But as to wrestling naked in his hotel room, for example? I think that's just behavior he finds funny to ascribe to the type he's portraying.
I don't know enough of Knipp's work to actually make any sort of claim like this for him specifically, but I could imagine SOMEONE using blackface as a way to confront societal issues, too.
#80don't just sit there, do something!
Posted: 1/7/09 at 3:05pm
Borat wasn't meant to mock Kazakhstan per se. In fact, it had nothing to do with Kazakhstan when he created it. Borat was just a "funny foreigner" type, like Balki from perfect strangers, and Cohen used Kazakhstan because he figured that no one would know anything about it and wouldn't question whatever crazy stuff he made up about it.
I've tried to understand Shirley Q. Liquor for years, because some friends of mine and people whom I respect are fans, but I just can't resolve my own discomfort with the character for many of the reasons already stated more eloquently in this thread.
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#81don't just sit there, do something!
Posted: 1/7/09 at 3:22pm
The Borat character was used to unmask people's ignorance and mean-spiritedness, as well as to call attention to the irrational fears beneath racism and anti-Semitism. Part of the humor also comes from the without-a-net nature of what Cohen does, literally taking chances by putting himself in the middle of hostile territory.
If there were any possible way that this was a motivation of Knipp's, there would be no way on earth he could have been caught unawares that the white people who hired him WERE LAUGHING AT BLACK WOMEN, shock of shocks. If he were half as brave as Cohen, he would have unmasked those who hired him and satirically made them confront their racism. For an example of how an artist makes something like that work, think of Stephen Colbert at the White House Press Association Dinner that time.
For those who didn't see the Rolling Stone feature, here it is.
Shirley Q. Liquor, After Imus: A Black Face Comic Who Sings "12 Days of Kwanzaa"
#82don't just sit there, do something!
Posted: 1/7/09 at 3:39pm
Borat was just a "funny foreigner" type, like Balki from perfect strangers...
Reminds me of Andy Kaufman on Taxi. Nobody objected to that character. It was his stand-up that kept getting him in trouble.
#83don't just sit there, do something!
Posted: 1/7/09 at 3:41pm
Or Wilmer What's-His-Face on "That 70's Show."
Or that lady from the made-up island on "Nurses." Oh wait -- no one remembers that show. 
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#84don't just sit there, do something!
Posted: 1/7/09 at 3:43pmI even think Kaufman's stuff was intended to make people confront the ugly inside.
#85don't just sit there, do something!
Posted: 1/7/09 at 3:47pm
Now, Ted Danson on the other hand...
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#86don't just sit there, do something!
Posted: 1/7/09 at 4:02pm
Um, Whoopi TOLD him to do that, so therefore Shirley Q should get a pass!
By the way, I remember Nurses!
#87don't just sit there, do something!
Posted: 1/7/09 at 4:25pm
"The Borat character was used to unmask people's ignorance and mean-spiritedness, as well as to call attention to the irrational fears beneath racism and anti-Semitism."
Absolutely. But that doesn't mean that people don't react to the surface aspects of what he's doing.
From Wiki:
"The European Center for Antiziganism Research, which works against negative attitudes toward Roma people, filed a complaint with German prosecutors on 18 October 2006, based on Borat's references to Gypsies in his film. The complaint accuses him of defamation and inciting violence against an ethnic group. As a consequence, 20th Century Fox declared that it would remove all parts referring to Roma people from trailers shown on German television as well as on the movie's website.
"Prior to the release of the film, the Anti-Defamation League released a statement expressing concern over Borat's characteristic anti-Semitism. While Cohen himself is Jewish and has stated that he uses Borat to expose the prejudices felt or tolerated by others, the organization remained concerned that some audiences might remain oblivious to this aspect of the film's humor while 'some may even find it reinforcing their bigotry.'"
#89don't just sit there, do something!
Posted: 1/7/09 at 4:42pm
Final commentary on this topic.
To me, Knipp's SQL and Tracey Ullman's Shaneesha Turner character are cut from the same cloth. What's amazing to me is how Tracey's character bears an uncanny resemblance to actress Adele Givens (Hellura)in appearance, movement and diction.
The reason why I'm not disturbed by either the SQL or Shaneesha caricaturas is because I come into contact with real live versions of them daily in a professional office setting. I got no reason to fake the funk here. Washington, DC is replete with SQL and Shaneesha Turner incarnates.
I'm not embarrassed by their presence like too many younger African Americans ensconced in white settings nor do I throw them pity parties out of guilt like so many of my non-black blue-bred liberal friends.
Just keepin' it real peeps.
Presenting Shaneesha Turner
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#90don't just sit there, do something!
Posted: 1/7/09 at 4:55pmAt least Tracy's not a misogynist!
#91don't just sit there, do something!
Posted: 1/7/09 at 5:02pmI have a friend who is a misogynist! She used to practice on me for free all the time. But there was never a happy ending.
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#92don't just sit there, do something!
Posted: 1/7/09 at 5:26pmThere never is with misogyny.
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