Straight Marriage BANNED in Oregon! — Page 2

Deedle Deedle dee...ok I understand her post made several board members angry....but the best way is to explain to her calmly why you believe she is wrong that way you don't look like a (well... word I shall choose to omit). You have to be the bigger person, and not let their ignorance get to you. Whether you believe in God or whatever. Hate the sin not the sinner. So hate the actions, just don't let that anger of the action hurt the person. Just teach them. Yeah I know its hard, we ain't perfect, but it achieves more than yelling at people. Yelling just alienates. I could also be reading a lot into the posts so forgive me if I did, but when it comes to sensitive issues like this its best to make what you say and your tone absolutely clear. Even us backward Catholics recognize it is not a choice to be gay. (Sorry for bringing up the Catholic thing so much, but it is where I feel closest to you in your struggle because thats where I have had the most trouble with other people being ignorant in my life. Which is a blessing considering what others have to endure.)

---

Updated On: 3/25/04 at 11:26 AM

How someone was raised, of course, does affect one's opinions. I won't argue that at all. I WILL argue that when you get to a certain age, you need to take responsibility for your thoughts and actions. That includes posting your opinions on a message board. I have read NYU's posts and it is clear from them that she is a performer (or wants to be one). Which is why I have no problem "attacking" her on this matter because of all the industries that exist, to have that worldview in HER profession is ignorant. That's not meant to be NASTY. I mean it very literally:

ig·no·rant ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gnr-nt)
adj
Lacking education or knowledge.
Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake.
Unaware or uninformed.

---

Papa and Sun,

Good points...I grant you. But I for one am just some dumb-f*ck actor with a BA in Drama. I did not major in education, special or otherwise. And after years of 'teaching' people about homosexuality (in oh so many ways) and not getting paid for it, I'm kinda done. I, personally, am choosing to ignore the poster of the comment in question, because I just don't have the time or energy. If being a creative, loving person in a committed, beautiful and open relationship and giving back to the community are not enough to earn people's respect or the equal rights gauranteed by our Constitution, then I don't know what else to do. Let people with more patience than I keep on educating. After a lifetime of it, I'm starting to feel a bit like Sisyphus.

---

Updated On: 3/25/04 at 11:51 AM

"[i] [will] argue that when you get to a certain age, you need to take responsibility for your thoughts and actions. [t]hat includes posting your opinions on a message board."

oh please, do you know how many freakin' 12-18 year olds we have posting on this board? are you saying that they are fully formed as people and thus they are completely responsible for their opinions because they know how to post on a mmessage board? that's crap. why don't you just admit that she pissed you off and you attacked her because you were so upset by her comments. you did attack her and not her opinions. you attacked her intelligence in your first response and then mocked her with the cancer comment.

and yeah, you were not meaning to be nasty at all in your post were ya? if you believe that your posts were not nasty then you're even more ignorant than those you attack.

---

age 8, hell! the way they raised me was that the whole baptism thing gave ya a new soul and when i found that out i was furious with my parents. "thanks mom and dad, i really needed that at age three freakin' weeks didn't i???" i was livid! i was 6 when i confronted them with the knowledge that thanks to them i was responsible for everything i'd done since birth practically. oh was i heated! thanks, a new soul then did me a f*** of a lotta good, huh?

on a larger note, i think it's neat that nature vs. nurture is being debated in two separate ways in this thread. are gays born that way? at what age are people who are raised in a household in which they are taught that homosexuality is a chosen behavior responsible for those views?

---

To answer your question Jack: I just turned 20 three weeks ago. And I wasn't really trying to piss people off I was just stating my opinion.

Updated On: 3/25/04 at 12:14 PM

You know I don't to add fuel to the fire, but I the wording of the opinion you gave was a bit unclear, and caused some miscommunication:

"Yes, but this is a chosen minority, not like a skin color."

Were you stating that the officials in Oregon were a "chosen minority?" If so, what does that have to do with "skin color?"

I found this very very confusing. And since many people persist in the theory that Gays "choose" their "alternative lifestyles," I immediately thought you meant the same thing.

From the posts following your response, many people felt the same.

Just trying to understand....

nah, i was the one trying to use her youth as an excuse, but she's 20 (even though she seems a lot younger to me) so that argument's right down the crapper. i still contend that nurture plays a big part in one's views. although, i will concede that ignorance can grow all on its own and be tended lovingly just as easily as tolerance and understanding. i was trying not to defend the views so much as argue for patience for the person as i know how long it can take to shake off the debilitating effects of parents and family. y'see, i was not always such a kind, gentle and understanding imperialist war monger.

---

So, Unique. What did you mean by "chosen minority" you have not cleard that up.

Also, Sonof, can we not confuse the issue by continuing to use the term "Sexual Preference"? That implies "CHOICE". The proper term is "Sexual Orientation" which implies an inborn trait.

---

I remember when I was about 13, I was going into my mother's office with her and there was a woman arguing with the receptionist about how her family's bills were arriving to her. She said something along the lines of "What right do you have to put my husband's name before mine? Is he the more important member of the family? Does he drive the kids in for their check-ups? Does he write the checks?" (Later I would learn this woman argued with the staff at the drop of a hat in hopes of getting breaks in her fees so she could use the money to procure substances for her own pleasure.) It was in response to that incident that I turned to my mother (a multiple-time divorcee who has, for the most part, raised four kids on her own) and said "You know, feminism is a pretty big load of bunk."

I spent the rest of that afternoon sitting in my mother's office with a bunch of Internet printouts on the feminist movement and learned a lot of things I didn't know, because I had always been taught that feminists were bra-burners who defied the oppression of evil, male, cock-waggers.

That's really all I'm going to say on the matter, uniq, because you're a smart girl and can make the connection. I do (shocker) agree with papa, however, on the fact that it is a long process to begin to think outside of what you accepted as truth in your childhood.

PS, the woman in the earlier bit of my story still argues over the name placement on her bills in hopes of getting a 10% break in fees.

My comment before...I was making a point that to be born in a minority such as a skin color or nationality is not something you can hide. People can tell just by looking at you. To be gay you openly proclaim your sexuality to whoever you feel like telling. I do know alot about "why" people are gay etc as explained to me by my friends and other people.And yes they do know how I feel and are respectfull enough not to talk about what they do in bed with me. This still doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

Updated On: 3/25/04 at 01:05 PM

Well, Lord knows, Jack, that I have oriented...orientated...whatever the word is...quite a few.

---

If the boy scouts were a homosexual group the Orienteering merit badge would take on a whole new meaning.

---