Sweeney Todd is Bloody Good!- Page 5

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 8:39pm

Damn! Mine are all hundreds.



And actually Alexander Hamilton looks more like Bea Arthur's "Maude" than the judge.

Beethoven? Sure. That would have been a good look for the Judge. Just not a feathered Luke Skywalker.

Rickman needs a lot more "height" to be period.

Updated On: 12/23/07 at 08:39 PM

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 9:36pm

I can't believe you two are bickering over Rickman's hair when Depp's has not even been mentioned! There is one shot of the back of Sweeney's head that looked like Ann Miller! No lie.
"Sweeney, why do you have to make such a big production out of everything?"

[RENTingFAME]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 9:41pm

Um... beyond, well, hair...

I'd just like to say that I liked the movie. lol. I was too busy enjoying seeing Alan Rickman and Johnny Depp on screen at the same time to care about their hair and what period it was from.

[Glebb]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 10:09pm

Like this Sueleen?

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 10:14pm

More like this, but from behind.

[Glebb]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 10:26pm

That dress isn't very period.
All of his dresses were!

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 11:35pm

The makeup kinda looks like Depp's too, Sue.

[Glebb]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 10:26am

Gene Shalit likes it!

[Auggie27]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 11:13am

OT, but not really ... seeing the shots of Anne Miller reminded me of how she popped into my mind watching Miss Julia in CHARLIE WILSON. That Roberts make-up has little Ann Miller touches on the lids. (Watch her pick the mascara apart with a safety pin -- scarier than anything in SWEENEY).

Yet on reflection, Ms. Roberts looked more like a drag queen doing Joan Hackett in ONLY WHEN I LAUGH. Oddly specific, but when you see it, maybe you'll see what I mean.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 10:47am

**SPOILERS INCLUDED**

I really enjoyed it. Did anyone else notice how Johanna looked exactly like Christina Ricci in Sleepy Hollow? There were a couple of disappointments for me as well. The aforementioned Kiss Me was probably the saddest omission quickly followed by the absence of the choral music in Pirelli's Miracle Elixir and God That's Good. I couldn't figure out why the choral cuts were made as they really add to the excitement and atmosphere of the scenes, unless it's a budget thing where they didn't want to pay for chorus singers. Helena's voice was weak overall, but it worked out ok since Depp's voice is not exactly the strongest either. It was a good vocal pairing.

The one directorial failure for me was The Worst Pies in London. There was nothing in the performance of that song to lend anything to the wonderful lyrics. They were mechanically recited from beginning to end completely devoid of meaning or humor. One of Sondheim's wittiest and most unique solos was completely stripped of its delights and rather than allowing the actress to deliver the comic zingers, they were replaced with CGI cockroaches. That was a shame. The only scene of complete and utter disappointment in the film for me. The rest was rather excellent. I especially liked the way Burton snuck in the iconic cleaver/rolling pin image into the end of A Little Priest (not to mention the clever way the number was filmed).

Burton brought us some of the classic staging as well as some clever ideas of his own to create a Sweeney Todd that was both familiar and new. Having both a special familiarity with the show (my first profestional show) as well as a bit of burnout from the multitude of professional, semi-profession and concert productions, I was mostly delighted with what could have been a tiresome disappointment such as Rent or Phantom of the Opera.

Dreamgirls, Hairspray and Sweeney Todd should be proud of the way they are bringing musicals back to the attention of movie-going audiences. I hope it continues.

Updated On: 12/26/07 at 10:47 AM

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 11:12am

I posted my thoughts on the other board. I will add here that one thing I also liked was "Green Finch...". I enjoyed the way it was sung. As far as the omission of the Ballad of Sweeney Todd, I just don't get why they didn't use it over the end credits. The music could have started during that final shot and the song could have been sung by a BIG choir as the credits were rolling. I think it would have been perfect and eerie. The problem I had is that the orchestrations were so wonderful and Depp and Carter's voices just were no match for them most of the time. It is not a bad movie, but I feel that if you are going to have such great orchestrations, get voices that will compliment them.

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 1:38pm

The movie ends on such a small, personal note. Very powerful in its own way, but it doesn't "resonate" much, without a chorus singing about the legend or at least a group of observers witnessing what had just happened in the final scene. The stage show has both.

Just exactly how would this "tale" become a legend, if nobody was around to witness it? Or tell about it?

It makes the story no less of a human tragedy, but much "smaller" in its meaning and overall impact.

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 1:57pm

"The movie ends on such a small, personal note."

Which goes along perfectly with Burton's approach to the material. I feel having the Ballad sung by a large chorus at the end, even over the credits, would have been completely out-of-place in Burton's film.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 2:13pm

I loved the movie and was glad to be rid of all the big choral moments, just as I was glad to get rid of every vestige of Hal Prince's overwrought and overblown Let's-turn-this-into-a-condemnation-of-the-Industrial-Revolution concept. I didn't want to hear screeching factory whistles, and I was glad to get rid of chorus singers pretending to be in a bad Royal Shakespeare Company production of some Ecccht Brecht.

All Sondheim ever wanted to write was Grand Guignol set to music, and that's exactly what Tim Burton gave him.

I think the blood deserves an Oscar. Each throat-cutting bled in a different way. It was thrilling.

I loved the ending, as is.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 2:18pm

"Just exactly how would this "tale" become a legend, if nobody was around to witness it? Or tell about it?"

Toby witnesses it. And he leaves carrying SWEENEY's razor. Johanna also witnesses it.

In the stage production, most of the singing chorus has been killed by the end of the musical, so logically they wouldn't be around to carry on the tale. The people who witness the murderes who are still alive at the end are the same characters who are alive at the end of the movie.

And as I've said before, I think for film, the story is done when Sweeney is killed. Having a chorus come out and sing for an additional two minutes about what we've just seen would have just made the movie seem longer than it is. Perhaps interesting visually, but from a story telling standpoint, it is unneccesary.

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 2:22pm

Johanna has no idea what's going on in the bakehouse in the film.

So... Yeah, Toby's going to be the one to tell the tale. In his state of mind.

Riiiggghhht. Makes total sense.

And I'm not suggesting (and neither is uncageg, if you read the post) that a chorus "come out" and sing at the end. Over the credits would have worked very well, though.

Updated On: 12/26/07 at 02:22 PM

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 2:25pm

Good points, MB. Plus, I think it would have taken away from the incredible power of the film's chilling final moments, particularly the last image.

The film is close and personal. A chorus would have ruined the horrifying intimacy of it all.

[robbiej]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 2:28pm

A chorus THERE was unneccessary, I agree.

But, boy did I miss the chorus during GOD THAT'S GOOD. Couldn't care less about KISS ME...but was a little sad about ...GOOD.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 2:29pm

I think its safe to say Johanna would figure out whats going on in the bakehouse; I also think its safe to say she would tell Anthony when he returned and they would go to the police. And for all we know Toby takes up Sweeney's razor and continues his rath (Sweeney sequel anyone?) At any rate, I think its safe to assume the story would have come out eventually, as is the case with all big murder cases.

I guess you are saying that you thought somebody needed to come into the bakehouse in the final moments of the film to see the bodies - because that is all that happens in the musical. I think that would have ruined the image of Todd/Lucy which is to be honest far more spectacular than the final moment of the stage production, so I think its a fair trade off.

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 2:30pm

But best, the film doesn't concern itself with the "legend" of Sweeney Todd. It concerns itself with the characters.


And, after seeing the film a second time, I do think having the chorus sing in "God, That's Good" would have added to the scene. But I still think all the cuts in the Johanna/Anthony storyline were beneficial and well-thought.

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 2:31pm

You lost me after your fourth assumption on what is "safe to say" happened.

1 + 2 = 7, in other words.

EDIT: I will also add that a closeup of Anthony and particularly Johanna's horrified face seeing her slain parents in that "tragic tableau" would have been an even bigger payoff dramatically.

As I mentioned in another thread, this is like fading to black just as Chino fires the gun and Tony slumps into Maria's arms in the film of West Side Story. You're trimming off one of the most powerful scenes (if not THE most powerful) in the film.

It's the moment where the story becomes bigger than just Tony and Maria.

Updated On: 12/26/07 at 02:31 PM

[robbiej]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 2:32pm

Because they messed with the placement of GOOD THAT'S GOOD and Act 2 JOHANNA, the entirety of GOD THAT'S GOOD couldn't have worked. But "Is that a chair fit for a king..." etc. is my absolute favorite part of SWEENEY TODD.

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 2:33pm

The song is still called "God, That's Good!" yet nobody sings that in the song now.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 2:40pm

I do think they could have added the choral singing to "God That's Good" and it would have been fine,

I think the musical trims are for the most party really smart; and you don't really need the "Fit for King" section because on stage they need that to *explain* the set up for Sweeney's chair opening up to the bakehouse - but for a film they can show it in two seconds. Rearranging the GOD THATS GOOD and JOHANNA sequences is actually I think a great example of good translation from stage to screen.

PS

On stage, Johanna never knows that SWEENEY and LUCY are her parents. How was she going to figure this out in film? I doubt she even knows how she came to be adopted by the judge. Even if she overheard Sweeney and Lovett's conversation, there is nothing to connect her directly to either character.
Updated On: 12/26/07 at 02:40 PM

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 2:47pm

As much as I love the music for the "chair fit for a king" section (it soars!), I didn't miss that in the film either. And I loved the sequence of watching Sweeney put the chair together.

And I agree that MOST of the trims, particularly the trims made for the principle characters were smart choices.

But I would have added the chorus over the credits (not singing the Ballad throughout), and had them sing all of "God, That's Good!" and had SOME vocals remain in the Pirelli Elixir scene (even if they were scaled down). I just don't believe all those people standing around "silent." And I wanted the inmates in the asylum to sing "City on Fire" but that wasn't necessary either.

I also would have written a better scene somewhere for Anthony and Johanna, particularly since "Kiss Me" was excised.