THIS Sicko thread is for folks who have actually seen it...- Page 3

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 7/16/07 at 11:29pm

Moore's biggest mistake, aside from his usual schtick of skewing the facts to support his own politics, is praising Cuba's healthcare system, which is notoriously bad to anyone who actually knows what's going on in that country. Of course, praising the British NHS system isn't a good move either; he fails to mention that most prefer the private tier for a reason. My British friend laughed so hard when he heard all that Moore claimed about their healthcare.

Updated On: 7/16/07 at 11:29 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/16/07 at 11:43pm

Then here's a fun idea. Let's just adopt the British practice of awarding bonuses to doctors who get their patients to improve their health practices and STOP giving them bonuses for denying care.

Or is THAT too radical and hilarious for you and your "British friend?"

Updated On: 7/16/07 at 11:43 PM

[HDThoreau2]

Posted: 7/16/07 at 11:48pm

A Voice of Reason Appears on the board, there is a God!

Moore's biggest mistake, aside from his usual schtick of skewing the facts to support his own politics, is praising Cuba's healthcare system, which is notoriously bad to anyone who actually knows what's going on in that country. Of course, praising the British NHS system isn't a good move either; he fails to mention that most prefer the private tier for a reason. My British friend laughed so hard when he heard all that Moore claimed about their healthcare.

Wow! you guys must be really sweating it, at least four people think that Moore's Myth was worthless.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/16/07 at 11:51pm

Bye bye!

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 7/16/07 at 11:52pm

I never said that our healthcare system is perfect, but Moore is not presenting the complete sides to things. He is whitewashing other countries' universal healthcare systems in order to make people think that particular system of healthcare is the answer. I don't know about you, but I prefer to be presented with all of the facts.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/16/07 at 11:55pm

But this is America, right? We're supposed to be so clever at adapting and improving ideas. Why not adopt the best practices of every OTHER industrialized nation in the world and reject what doesn't work? I can't stand this all-or-nothing mentality in this country. People seem to think that anybody who says out loud that the healthcare system is broken is therefore saying "We should have the British NHS!"

Like health itself, if you're familiar with Protchaska's Stages of Change Theory, things happen in incremental steps. And any improvement is seen as a good thing and inevitably leads to further improvement, IF improvement is encouraged.

It's like when somebody DARES to say in these anti-science times, "Global climate change is ominous," and certain types reply with "Oh, do you drive a car? You drive a car! You're a HYPOCRITE." Again, incremental changes make a big difference.

Personally I'm sick of these false all-or-nothing equations always put forth by people with absolutely no better ideas.

Speaking of, come in HDelete-O-Matic!

Updated On: 7/16/07 at 11:55 PM

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 7/16/07 at 11:58pm

I understand what you're saying, and I can agree. But Moore makes it seem like every aspect of the systems in other countries is great. That is my complaint with him and the film.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/17/07 at 12:01am

I added another example in my post above yours while you were replying.

See, here we are discussing the movie, seeing where we agree and where we disagree. And why are we able to do this? Oh, I know, BECAUSE WE SAW THE MOVIE!

Thanks for the chat, SG.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 7/17/07 at 12:04am

You're welcome. Thanks for staying civil.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/17/07 at 12:06am

It's easy with somebody who has seen the movie and not somebody who hasn't whose only "creative" idea is changing the thread title to something juvenile.

Discussion not disruption, that's when this board works well.

[HDThoreau2]

Posted: 7/17/07 at 12:09am

That truly is a Goddess!!

Updated On: 7/17/07 at 12:09 AM

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 7/17/07 at 12:12am

Do you EVER give up HD? If you have an opinion about the movie, then say it when you have actually SEEN it. And please say it in the very intelligent and thoughtful way Spork did, not in your idiotic posting.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/17/07 at 12:13am

How much clearer can it be that this is not a thread for you, HDelete-O-Matic? This is for people who have seen the movie.

You've proven yourself unable to take a hint around here lately, but could this thread be any more specifically not for you? And your disruptive posts to it keep getting dumped. And yet you keep coming back, playing your childish games. What do you get out of doing that?

There's nobody else like you on the board, almost universally reviled. I'm sure all your crap will be flushed again soon. Do you get a kick when that happens?

[Ivan the Wonderful]

Posted: 7/17/07 at 12:18am

Ivan and I want to see this. Is it true that the foreign doctors are hotties?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/17/07 at 12:22am

You'd hate it, Captain-Obvious. There's men of color in it.

[Ivan the Wonderful]

Posted: 7/17/07 at 12:24am

Give it up, Namo. Ivan is a man of color. Not black. Yellow.

[HDThoreau2]

Posted: 7/17/07 at 12:24am

"And your disruptive posts to it keep getting dumped."

Did you think that was a sentence? You punctuated that fragment as if it were a sentence.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/17/07 at 12:36am

... HDelete-O-Matic.

[HDThoreau2]

Posted: 7/17/07 at 8:24am

That's really funny, Namo.

[romantico]

Posted: 7/17/07 at 9:14am

"Discussion not disruption, that's when this board works well."

By far, the best way to describe HD! FindingNamo says it best!! HD has NOT seen the movie but he has plenty to say about it.I think a disclaimer should proceed each of HD's post on this board reminding readers he HAS NOT seen the movie.

Its still not clear why HD DISRUPTS and NOT DISCUSSES topics.According to HD, we are all evil and immoral! (yet he wants to be friends with us)

[romantico]

Posted: 7/17/07 at 10:21am

CNN Throws in Towel, Admits to Two Errors, and States That All 'Sicko' Facts Are True to Their Source (or something like that)... Moore Realizes All This is Huge Distraction and Then Spends More Precious Time Thanking Paris Hilton for Seeing 'Sicko'... Meanwhile, More than 300 Americans Die Because They Had No Health Insurance During the 8-Day Gupta-Moore War...

July 17th, 2007

Friends,

The mighty CNN, in a lengthy and sad online defense of their woe-begotten 'Sicko' story of last Monday, has admitted that they did indeed fudge at least two of the facts in their coverage of my film and have apologized for it:

1. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN: "To be clear, I got a number wrong in my original report, substituting the number 25, instead of 251." -- My Conversation with Michael Moore, July 11th, 2007; and

2. CNN: "Moore is correct. Paul Keckley left Vanderbilt in late 2006." http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/blogs/paging.dr.gupta/2007/07/my-conversation-with-michael-moore.html

Furthermore, CNN confirmed that all of our statistics in "Sicko" are the correct numbers from the sources we cited. Although CNN still prefers to use older World Health Organization statistics, we will stick to using this year's Bush administration stats and more recent U.N. data. (In "Sicko," we consistently use only U.N. Human Development Statistics unless it's for studies they don't do or have recent numbers for.) CNN did apologize for these two factual errors, but no apology seems to be coming for the rest of their errors. These days, to get the mainstream media to admit they were wrong is rare; to get them to admit it twice, as they have with "Sicko," I guess should be considered a whopping victory. Will they eventually apologize for the rest, or for their reporting on the war? Will the Cubs win the World Series this year?

So the truce has been signed, the peace pipe has been smoked. And the public is left with a much more cautious and wary eye when it comes to CNN. To be fair, this is what happens when you have to grind out "news" 24 hours a day, seven days a week, with a staff you have shrunk through layoffs over the years (like all the broadcast networks have done). You end up rushed and having interns do your research. You have robots replace live camera operators. And, if you're CNN, you are constantly dodging the accusation that you are "too liberal." So when you do a piece on someone like me, you have to make sure you add superfluous and standard ad hominems attacking me simply to prove that you are NOT too liberal. I get it.

Until the last month or so, I have not appeared on a single national TV show for nearly 2 and 1/2 years. After the attacks I had to endure three years ago, from a media intent on questioning my patriotism because I dared to speak out against the war when none in the media would, I decided I had had enough and would simply concentrate on making my next film. I had no desire to participate in networks that were complicit in the war because of their refusal the challenge the commander in chief.

I have to admit, though, I do feel kinda bad taking it all out on Wolf Blitzer. It's not like he's the official representative of the mainstream media. I mean, he's from Buffalo, for crying out loud! He said to me at the end of the show last week to please come back on "anytime you want." I will take him up on that offer and appear again with him tomorrow (Wednesday). I'm not expecting a dozen roses or make-up sex -- I only want a promise that there will be no more distorted distractions so we can have a decent discussion about the REAL issues like why 18,000 Americans die every year because they don't have a health insurance card. More than 300 of them died this week. As Ehrlichman said to Nixon in "Sicko": "The less care they give 'em, the more money they (the insurance companies) make."

THAT'S the only thing we should be talking about. How profit and greed are killing our fellow Americans. How profit and private insurance have to be removed from our health care system. CNN should join me in asking why our 9/11 rescue workers aren't receiving medical care. Somebody should send a crew to Canada to find out why they live longer than we do, and why no Canadian has ever gone bankrupt because of medical bills. And all of the media should start saying how much it costs to go to a doctor in these other top industrialized countries: Nothing. Zip. It's FREE. Don't patronize Americans by saying, "Well, it's not free -- they pay for it with taxes!" Yes, we know that. Just like we know that we drive down a city street for FREE -- even though we paid for that street with our taxes. The street is FREE, the book at the library is FREE, if your house catches on fire, the fire department will come and put it out for FREE, and if someone snatches your purse, the police officer will chase down the culprit and bring your purse back to you -- AND HE WON'T CHARGE YOU A DIME FROM THAT PURSE!

These are all free services, collectively socialized and paid for with our tax dollars. To argue that health care -- a life and death issue for many -- should not be considered in the same league is ludicrous and archaic. And trust me, once you add up what you pay for out-of-pocket in premiums, deductibles, co-pays, overpriced medicines, and treatments that aren't covered (not to mention all the other things we pay for like college education, day care and other services that many countries provide for at little or no cost), we, as Americans, are paying far more than the Canadians or Brits or French are paying in taxes. We just don't call these things taxes, but that's exactly what they are.

See you all when I'm back on CNN tomorrow -- where the discussion will be not be about whose statistics are right, but rather about the guy without insurance who died while I was writing this letter.

Yours,
Michael Moore
[e-mail]
www.michaelmoore.com

[HDThoreau2]

Posted: 7/17/07 at 11:06am

You guys have convinced me, I am going to see the movie tonight with two fans of Michael Moore. I'll try to have a full report on Wednesday.

I'm not really eating today, so I won't hurl when I see this travesty of justice.

I think it will be a great prequel to Hairspray this weekend.

Updated On: 7/17/07 at 11:06 AM

[romantico]

Posted: 7/17/07 at 11:12am

I find it very difficult to believe you would pay money to see SiCKO. After all your hate threads and rants about how you refuse to give Moore a nickel out of your hard earned money I have to ask, why the change of heart? I'll be sure to ask you in detail about specific parts of the film.

Something tells me you have already written your review and are waiting to post it later, but we'll see.

"I'm not really eating today, so I won't hurl when I see this travesty of justice." - HD-

Yeah, its not like you have made up your mind before seeing the film or will be objective. Oh no, HD, I am to willing wager your review will be fair and balanced!

The film will make you sick to see how other countries have it better than we do. Probably a good idea not to eat.

Updated On: 7/17/07 at 11:12 AM

[HDThoreau2]

Posted: 7/17/07 at 11:25am

""The film will make you sick to see how other countries have it better than we do.""

Oh no, is that what you really believe? That is terribly sad. You do understand their tax burden? Their system of who gets care and when? How they let people die while waiting on surgery? How seeing a specialist is not the patient's choice?

Most of all, you do understand (unlike Moore himself) that the care is not free?

I will produce a fair and balanced view of this great film.

I can't believe how easily that (supposedly) educated people fall prey to Moore's political stunting with CNN. He is lining his anti-capitalist, marxist pockets with gold stolen from all those people who should have "free" health care.

[romantico]

Posted: 7/17/07 at 11:32am

SO, you are correcting me on facts in SiCKO, a film you have not seen yet.

Oh, and you will provide a fair and balanced review on a Michael Moore film? Is anyone else reading this or am I still a sleep having a nightmare? If so, someone PLEASE wake me! The Horror!

HD's logic: If you believe anything about Michael Moore you are naieve and mis-informed.

If you believe that Hd, why waste your money on something you are SO CERTAIN is not true? You have made up your own mind about the film. You set yourself up when you say all this crap and then tell us you'll be fair and balanced. I mean, can you even hear yourself?

Even if you really did see it and LOVED it, we all know you would never admit it.HD, you NEVER admit when your wrong because in your world you never are or have ever been. Just leave us all alone and stop disrupting us. Send us over one of your friends who does not lie and welcomes civil debates. We are SO SICK of you!

Updated On: 7/17/07 at 11:32 AM