THIS Sicko thread is for folks who have actually seen it...- Page 2

[Yawper]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 10:59am

The former MP is Tony Benn - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Benn

"There is no moral difference between a Stealth bomber and a suicide bomber. They both kill innocent people for political reasons."

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 11:03am

What was his quote in Sicko? Something like, "If we can find the money to kill people we can find the money to help people"?

Thanks for finding that, Yawper.

[bschneid76]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 11:17am

I totally agree with that statement Namo. It is a pity.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 11:27am

At the end of the day, will some people say, "Gee, I was in favor of making war until the country was bankrupted, rather than helping people be healthy?" Will there be enough self examination, or is that just a complete impossibility?


Cost of War

[romantico]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 11:34am

SiCKO: There are nearly 50 million Americans without health insurance.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention actually reported that 54.5 million people were uninsured for at least part of the year. Health Insurance Coverage: Early Release of Estimates from the National Health Interview Survey, 2006. Centers for Disease Control. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhis/earlyrelease/insur200706.pdf
The amount of uninsured is rising every year, as premiums continue to skyrocket and wages stagnate. From 2004 to 2005 the number of uninsured rose 1.3 million, and rose up nearly 6 million from 2001-2005. Leighton Ku, "Census Revises Estimates Of The Number Of Uninsured People," Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, April 5, 2007 http://www.cbpp.org/4-5-07health.htm. With 44.8 uninsured in 2005, in 2007 the number will be much higher. Professors Todd Gilmer and Richard Kronick, in "It's The Premiums, Stupid: Projections Of The Uninsured Through 2013," Health Affairs, 10.1377/hlthaff.w5.143, "project that the number of non-elderly uninsured Americans will grow from forty-five million in 2003 to fifty-six million by 2013." According to these authors, by now the number of non-elderly uninsured by this date clearly would be nearly 50 million.
SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they're uninsured.

According to the Institute of Medicine, "lack of health insurance causes roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States. Although America leads the world in spending on health care, it is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage." Insuring America's Health: Principles and Recommendations, Institute of Medicine, January 2004.
http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175
SiCKO: Richard Nixon and John Ehrlichman are heard discussing the concept of a health maintenance organization in Oval Office Recordings.

On February 17, 1971, Richard Nixon met with John Ehrlichman to discuss the Vice President's position on health maintenance organizations, as heard in the film. The Miller Center of Public Affairs has this audio recording (conversation number 450-23. "Richard Nixon - Oval Office Recordings,"
http://millercenter.virginia.edu/scripps/digitalarchive/presidentialrecordings
/nixon/oval?PHPSESSID=b813e56b3017d097cd176720bc10fc74
The next day, Nixon called for a "new national health strategy" that had four points for expanding the proliferation of health maintenance organizations, or HMOs. "Special Message to the Congress Proposing a National Health Strategy," February 18th, 1971, http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=3311
The term "health maintenance organization" was coined by Nixon advisor Paul Ellwood. Patricia Bauman, "The Formulation and Evolution of the Health Maintenance Organization Policy, 1970-1973, Social Science & Medicine, vol. 10. 1976. After Congress passed Nixon's HMO Act in 1973, HMOs in America increased nine-fold in just ten years. N. R. Kleinfield, "The King of the HMO Mountain," New York Times, July 31, 1983.
SiCKO: The American Medical Association distributed a record featuring Ronald Reagan discussing the evils of socialized medicine.

Ronald Reagan's recording was widely available in the 1960s, and was a part of the American Medical Association's "Operation Coffee Cup," a coordinated rebuttal to Democrats' push for Medicare. Max Skidmore, "Ronald Reagan and Operation Coffee Cup: A Hidden Episode in American Political History," Journal of American Culture, vol. 12. 1989.
SiCKO: $100 million spent to defeat Hillary's health care plan.

"Even before debate began in Congress, a powerful coalition had been cobbled together to fight Clintoncare, as opponents labeled it - congressional Republicans, the insurance industry, the pharmaceutical industry, the National Federation of Independent Businesses, the Business Roundtable, the Christian Coalition, the conservative radio talk show network. Those groups spent between $100 million and $ 300 million to defeat it. And the battle was fought like a presidential campaign - with a TV advertising campaign, a network of field operatives and public relations experts to lobby members of Congress back in their districts." Rob Christensen, "Who killed health care reform? Answer: Everyone," News & Observer, June 19, 1996.
"In 1993-94, the Health Insurance Association of America, a trade group, spent about $15 million on advertising to defeat Clinton's proposed overhaul of the nation's health care system." John MacDonald, "Proponents, Opponents Join Battle Over Drug Price Limits," Hartford Courant, June 21, 2000.
"'We spent $1.4 million to fight President Clinton's plan,' [Mike Russell of the Christian Coalition] says." Harold Cox, "Business will spearhead Health Reform II ; Old enemies of Clinton's plan in lead," Washington Times, December 27, 1994.
"A study by Citizen Action, a consumer group, reports that doctors, hospitals, insurance companies and other providers of medical services made campaign contributions of $ 79 million during the 1993-1994 election cycle. The insurance industry passed out $16 million. The American Medical Association, which objects to cost-control measures, contributed $ 3 million." Froma Harrop, "The big lie about health reform," Rocky Mountain News, August 20, 1995.
"According to [Citizens for a Sound Economy] spokesman Brent Bahler, the group has not bought any airtime for commercials but has 'tentative plans' for a grassroots advocacy effort that would include an advertising component. Last year, Bahler said, the CSE spent more than $2 million on print, radio and television advertising to defeat Clinton's health care reform plan." James A. Barnes, "RNC Turns To TV Ads On Budget," National Journal, 5.16.95

(more)


http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/checkup/

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 12:19pm

Oh, and can I just applaud the aural pleasures of hearing The Rolling Stones' "Street Fighting Man" blasting over a stadium theater's sound system?

The francophone songs were great, too.

[romantico]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 12:22pm

Not sure about anyone else but I had to see the film again. There is just way too much to take in. I found myself thinking about this for days. I have seen it twice now and I think I still may need to see it again.Not sure if I'll wait for it on dvd or see it again in the theatre.

My only problem with Moore is it takes him to long to make a movie. Three years to make a movie is not gonna work for me. Let hope he A) Does tackle gay rights as the subject for his next movie and B) that he starts it soon.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 12:28pm

I've heard people say they thought that Cuban doctor was sexy, and he was. But you know who I developed an immediate man-crush on? The husband in that French couple who were showing us around their house. I loved him.

[romantico]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 12:34pm

I thought the British Doctor was hot. I was sad to see he was married.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 12:40pm

In Europe they're less hung up on extra-marital affairs! So, take heart.

I loved the point about the US gov't and media encouraging Americans to hate France just so they can stop us from talking to French people about their lives! Reminds me of somebody who tried to stop us from talking about a movie, for some reason.

[Cruel_Sandwich]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 12:43pm

I saw Sicko and Transformers in the same day. I was trying to do the oddest double feature of all time.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 12:47pm

That definitely might take the cake, C_S.

[romantico]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 1:05pm

I never understood the anti French thing either. The RW's used the fact that France wouldn;t fight with us. But what about germany and other countries who didn't want to fight in Bush's illegal war? Why focus JUST ON THE FRENCH.Of course, my favortie was Bill O'Reilly who called for a boycott the same week he was photographed leaving a French restaraunt.

[Yawper]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 1:13pm

"I saw Sicko and Transformers in the same day."

GO MICHIGAN!

A lot of Transformers was filmed in downtown Detroit.
(not responsible for the screenplay, which I've heard is pretty bad, just some of the backgound) Updated On: 7/15/07 at 01:13 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 1:15pm

I know the point in the movie was a laugh line and nothing serious, but might there have been a point?

5 weeks vacation? A 35 hour work week?

[Yawper]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 1:18pm

Long vacations are the norm for Europe

The 35 hour work week was/is a French effort to lower unemployment, but I'm sure it doesn't hurt on the stress reduction side.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 1:27pm

Don't you know we saved France's ass in WWII? They owe us their undying loyalty FOREVER!

I totally fell in love with the British Doc, too. Not to mention the hot Cuban! But let's not be too shallow here.

I loved when Moore asked the Canadians what their major expenses were and they said food and vacation!

I will have to see this again.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 1:31pm

I think movies like this can spur reactions that are serious AND shallow. To borrow a phrase, if I can't cruise guys I find hunky, I don't want to be part of your revolution!

[bschneid76]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 1:38pm

One disappointment I had was, even though they have universal health care, is there anything else that we should take in account with France/England/Canada's government? With the film, the countries come off as elegant places to live, with no problems. Granted the film is about universal health care. But what are the cut backs that the other countries have to endure that maybe we don't have to?

The film is terrific.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 1:43pm

Of course those countries are not perfect, but I would be willing to give up something to know that ALL my fingers would be reattached.

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 1:54pm

Exactly. The critics of Sicko are jumping all over anything they perceive to be a problem with single payer health-care, without ever addressing the problems that we have in our own system. NO system is going to be perfect, no government or country is going to be perfect. But, why can't the US take the best of all these systems and work on eliminating or fixing what doesn't work. Right now, we have a blank slate to do the blueprint on. The US has always prided itself on being able to do things better than any other country. But, in this case the status quo seems to be good enough.

[Yawper]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 1:54pm

Americans can give up being fat and throwing away food. I can't count how many times I've heard Europeans commenting on how big American restaurant portions are.

[everythingtaboo]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 2:18pm

Omigod, Cruel_Sandwich I totally saw Transformers and Sicko the same day too, I just walked across 42nd St to the other multiplex!

The Brit doctor was so damn hot, I will admit. I noticed the Cuban doctor, but by that point I was crying like a baby and really couldn't take him in.

When Michael was on Howard, he mentioned a little more about the ring finger/middle finger thing...I believe he said that the 60k cost was because that required another specialist to deal with more tendons, or something like that.

(Cue the look on that Canadian guy.)

And I loved when the French couple said they're biggest expense was their fish.

One of the saddest stories was of that woman with her sick daugher who was refused care at a non-Kaiser ER because Kaiser wouldn't approve it, and by the time the mother got to the network hospital, the baby died. For god's sakes, really.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 2:24pm

I don't know what 'you people' are talking about. I mean like according to ashbash1990 in the main board's Sicko thread, the film is 'one sided, half-true trash'. I mean that's what he/she like saw.

[SNAFU]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 2:57pm

I think that one of the more moving moments of the film was the way the Cuban firefighters greeted our firefighters. When one was told "Don't be afraid to go and hug a brother" it made me well up.