Tonight's Democratic Debate: Hillary and Obama BOTH Won- Page 4

[TheHumanTorch]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 5:03pm

i don't think what i wrote was misogynistic at all. As a woman and a feminist I truly believe that she would and DOES set back the feminist movement. This is a woman who for most of her campaign has tried to rid every ounce of femininity from her persona EXCEPT when she needs it dearly. Patronizing comments like "i'm your girl" and crying for the first time when you're losing in the primary races only sets the women's movement back. Saying those things and crying in public IS FINE, if she didn't work so hard to shun those images beforehand. I want the first female president to be a woman who is unafraid to act feminine at ALL times, not just at the poll-tested most desperate times...

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 5:10pm

You know she didn't actually cry, right?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 5:13pm

"only sets the women's movement back."

No dear, Phyllis Schlaffly and Ann Coulter set the women's movement back. But you do remind me of many so-called feminists who don't seem to be able to wrap their brains around the notion of progressive change and evolution. Crying is "fine" but somehow it's disingenuous to you because she was, according to you, trying to butch it up, which is inherently somehow anti-feminist to you? I know more than a few butch dykes who'd love to hear you say that to their faces.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 5:17pm

The Hillary-haters on the left are as unrelenting as the Hillary-haters on the right.

It becomes overkill--and all it really does is cement support for her.

[lildogs]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 5:22pm

No, she didn't actually CRY, but she did display emotion only when she thought she was losing. Did she get emotional over Katrina or Bill's trial or the war or the battle for Homeland Security money? Nope--just when she thought she might not get what she wants.

I heard a newscaster describe her as being like Reese in ELECTION. Pretty accurate I think.

[TheHumanTorch]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 5:25pm

you're not getting it... Hillary has worked so hard for this tough, masculine image throughout her campaign, but as soon as she NEEDS to be feminine to garner more votes she cries or i guess more accurately sheds crocodile tears. Its fine if she wishes to be a butch feminist and its fine if she chooses to be a feminine feminist, but it is disingenuous and INSULTING to feminists to do these things so late in the game only to garner votes and support

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 5:26pm

she cries or i guess more accurately sheds crocodile tears

No, neither is accurate.

[lildogs]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 5:27pm

Still no answer on how Bill's experience counts as hers...

[robbiej]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 5:27pm

Actually...I don't think she's being 'masculine' at all. I do think she's portraying herself as a capable, intelligent, strong leader. If YOU associate those qualities with 'masculinity,' well...that's your thing, isn't it?

I think she's very much womanly.

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 5:43pm

Like it or not, Hillary's undeniably had more experience on the national stage than Obama, a first term Senator who only emerged onto the national scene in 2004. And I do think that having been First Lady counts as political experience if you utilize that position to help shape political policy. I'm not confusing her experience with her husband's.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 5:43pm

Mitt Romney turns on the waterworks when he sees a Hummel figurine. Does that mean he's set back the Mormon movement 20 years?

[lildogs]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 5:52pm

Well, I DON'T think it counts as her experience--and if so--RELEASE THE RECORDS WOMAN! That's the part that galls me--she appropriates her husband's career as her own, but refuses to allow us to see how much power she exerted--which is it Hill?

And being on the national stage is very different than being elected and accountable. It has nothing to do with my liking it or not--I like her husband--but I didn't vote for her anymore than I plan to elect Michelle Obama. Bill's wife was as irrelevant to his campaign then as Hillary's husband SHOULD be in this one.

[jasonf]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 6:01pm

"doesn't raise buckets full of cash for the other side."

That is why I am voting for Barack!

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 6:08pm

I think that's been more of a tactical mistake than anything. I think she has realized that she has to speak to her career and her ability to lead the country as President. The thing is, she took a more active role in the political process as First Lady than arguably any woman had before her -- and yes, that's under her husband's term in office and he was the one elected and accountable, but I think that it's unfair not to consider her contributions as significant and acknowledge that they have helped prepare her to act as President if she's elected. On top of that, she's had an independent career as a US Senator for 8 years.

I don't even particularly support her over Obama, but I don't think that it's false to say that she has political experience in her favor.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 6:11pm

Uh Barack Obama has also served in the Illinois Senate. He has more experience than say George W Bush had....or Abe Lincoln for that matter.

The only requirement is that you are 35 and Born in America. He's qualified.

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 6:12pm

What did she do during her husband's term. I don't recall.

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 6:14pm

I didn't say that he wasn't qualified, and I know that he was a state Senator in Illinois. I am simply speaking as to a factor (one of several) that impacts my choice between the two candidates in question.

I don't really understand how it's an arguable point that Clinton doesn't have more national (which is a factor to me, and may not be important at all to others) experience than Obama. But you can take that the other way around, as Obama's campaign has, that he's a relative outsider who hasn't been as entangled in the web of the Washington political scene, especially since people are unhappy and want a change. You don't need national experience and many Presidents (including Bill Clinton) were fine without it, but in the current political climate, I don't know if I'm totally comfortable with a newcomer. Maybe it's just that Obama's rise to prominence has been so meteoric and I'm worried that he's more rhetoric than results.

But as I've said before, this is really a no-lose situation for me since I think that either candidate would do well in the White House. Updated On: 2/1/08 at 06:14 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 9:07pm

"INSULTING to feminists to do these things so late in the game"

Ohhhhhhh, so there's an official feminist timetable for emotions? I get it now.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 9:12pm

namo, you don't get it and your pretending to do so is just sad. you're never going to be a misogynist so just give it up and leave it to the pros.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 9:15pm

What? I can't hear you. The Human Torch is making too much noise fetching me a beer.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 9:17pm

oh lord, have you got her wearing the nipple spurs again?

[Unknown User]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 10:40pm

Is a 'nipple spur' some sort of Spur WORN on the nipple, or a traditional foot spur deisgned to be dug into a nipple?

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 10:52pm

oh stop playing coy.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 10:54pm

He musta meant clamps not spurs.

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 2/1/08 at 11:06pm

Everyone knows that if a candidate cries even a second past 2:37 PM on August 4th a year prior to the election, it's phony and insulting.

Unless they're wearing what's in PJ's picture. Then it's okay to cry at any time and we feminists compleeeeetely understand.

Updated On: 2/1/08 at 11:06 PM