Woody Allen — Page 2

Jay Lerner-Z said: "Did anybody here see the recent HBO documentary? I know it wasn't neutral, but maybe still enough to convince any doubters. I believe Dylan. A conversation over on the main board is making me wonder if I can ever enjoy his movies again."

Yes. And after watching the documentary I'm not only convinced Dylan is telling the truth, but that Woody Allen is a complete POS of a human being. I won't be able to bring myself to watch any of his movies again after watching that.

The CBS piece makes me think of Sarah Schulman's line: "Entertainment tells us what we already know; art asks questions." The framing of the TV piece ("Should we separate the art from the artist?" is such a hoary old line...) just demonstrates to me that we need new and better ways to talk about these things. But better thinking is hard to come by nowadays.

Revulsion?

Jarethan said: "I still believe in 'innocent until proven guilty' and, while I think he has some issues, nothing has been proven to me.

Re his talent...anyone who directed the following list of films, by no means conclusive, but among my favorites, must be considered a great filmmaker: Annie Hall, Manhattan Hannah and her Sisters, Crimes and Misdemeanors, Match Point, Love and Death, Sleeper, Radio Days, Bullets Over Broadway, Hannah and Her Sisters, Purple Rose of Cairo, Midnight in Paris, Husband and Wives, Interiors.

Re his second tier films (clearly a controversial label), I personally thoroughlyenjoyedManhattan Murder Mystery, Cassandra's Dream, Victoria Christina Barcelona, Sweet and Lowdown, A Midsummer's Night Sex Comedy, Play It Again Sam, Cafe Society and even To Rome With Love. I do not think he is without some real misfires: I HATED Shadow and Fog, Zelig (highly acclaimed), Stardust Memories...but I have to acknowledge that all were ambitious (for me) failures, and there were more than a few thoroughly mediocre ones, e.g., Melinda and Melinda, Magic in the Moonlight.

Decades ago, I read an article that opined that there were only 7 or 8 'base stories' and that everything else written after those were essentially variations on a theme. I think, however sweeping a statement, there is some truth to that; To dismiss Crimes and Misdemeanors as a ripoff or Blue Jasmine as a ripoff of Streetcar seems silly to me.

All of the melodrama aside, I think a serious number of Allen films will be held in high esteem far longer than any of us will be around."

I don't understand the line about " I still believe in innocent until proven guilty." I see this pop up when a famous person is accused of wrongdoing but is not found guilty in court (or even tried). "Innocent until proven guilty" just means the burden of proof is on the prosecution. It does not mean folks won't speculate whether or not they think someone is guilty. People have always done that. And I've come to the conclusion that it's far more likely Allen is a pedophile than his accusers are liars.

I do wonder if the phrase " I believe in innocent until proven guilty" is used as a refuge for scoundrels. It allows fans to continue enjoying films they love without having to address disturbing allegations. Easier to just say " he's not been proven guilty" and you have an out.

I do think he's made many good movies.

Woody Allen. Michael Jackson.

One gets his book cancelled, and his movies undistributed. The other gets a glorifying Broadway musical, his name up in lights for all to see. How is this fair? If court convictions aren't the decider anymore, can we at least be consistent?

I know one is dead and the other is still alive... but still.