clinton vs. sanders your vote?- Page 12

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/15/15 at 8:56pm

 

..."shocking" new New Hampshire poll.

 

 

Oy vey. The media has to hype everything. And why the scare quotes around "shocking"?

There's nothing "shocking" about Bernie Sanders doing well in New Hampshire. I would be "shocked" if Bernie DIDN'T do well in New Hampshire.

When Bernie closes in on Hillary's NATIONWIDE numbers, then I'll be "shocked."

When Bernie's nationwide numbers beat some of the Republican candidates' numbers, then I'll be "shocked."

Meanwhile, as my grandmother used to say to my grandfather (who also was a octogenarian Jewish socialist), "Gei gezunt." ("Go with health.")

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 6/16/15 at 6:40am

I don't think it's shocking that he's doing well in New Hampshire either. I do think it's a surprise that he jumped from 8% to 32% so quickly.

 

[South Florida]

Posted: 6/16/15 at 6:41pm

PJ, my dad knew what all those Jewish phrases meant and he would say that one often.  He was born in 1918 and spent a lot of his early years among the Harlem Jews.  The Irishman had a respect for all things Jewish.

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 6/17/15 at 10:48pm

10 ways Hillary and Jeb are basically the same candidate

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 6/18/15 at 11:35am

^ That article pretty much explains why I can't vote for Hillary Clinton all in one place!

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/18/15 at 11:42am

And this one explains how you and the other Bernie supporters are helping to elect one of the Republican candidates.

 

FORWARD PROGRESSIVES: Bernie Sanders Is Already Making It More Likely Republicans Win The White House In 2016

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 6/18/15 at 11:45am

"And this one explains how you and the other Bernie supporters are helping to elect one of the Republican candidates.
 
FORWARD PROGRESSIVES: Bernie Sanders Is Already Making It More Likely Republicans Win The White House In 2016"

 What a load of bullsh*t. 

I notice how you didn't refute any of the issues brought up in the article Borstal posted though. You never do when it comes to Clinton. 

Updated On: 6/18/15 at 11:45 AM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/18/15 at 11:48am

It wasn't bull**** when Ralph Nader helped elect George W. Bush.

Same thing now.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 6/18/15 at 11:51am

Yes. That was a load of bullsh!t too.

Funny how NAFTA, welfare "reform", Wall Street deregulation, Clinton's crime bill, DOMA, etc never get blamed for Bush winning. It's all Ralph Nadar's Fault!! Who knew he had such power?

 

[South Florida]

Posted: 6/18/15 at 12:04pm

No comparison to Nader, on election day Bernie will not be on any ballots unless it's as the Dem candidate.  That is a bad analogy.

 

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/18/15 at 12:13pm

It's not a bad analogy at all. It's a simple equation:

You don't vote for the Democrat...you get the Republican.

Works that way whether you vote for a 3rd-party candidate or stay home:

If you don't vote for the Democrat...the Republican gets elected.

It also works against Republicans: Ross Perot helped elect Clinton.

Updated On: 6/18/15 at 12:13 PM

[South Florida]

Posted: 6/18/15 at 2:35pm

Oh brother!

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 6/18/15 at 5:39pm

When the Dem fave and the Rep fave are so totally similar, does it really matter?

Can you imagine what would happen if Hillary made a statement like this? Yeah, me neither.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 6/19/15 at 7:01am

There is one difference between Jeb and Hillary. Jeb doesn't pretend he's progressive.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 6/20/15 at 9:21am

Bernie Sanders on Real Time With Bill Maher last night

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/20/15 at 11:25am

Bad Bernie!

WASHINGTON POST: Bernie Sanders held a loud rally Thursday, right next to a solemn vigil for Charleston

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/20/15 at 11:25am

Good Hillary!

 

WASHINGTON POST: Hillary Clinton calls on nation to consider ‘hard truths’ about church massacre

 

ABC NEWS: Hillary Clinton Suggests Donald Trump-Like Comments Can 'Trigger' Events Like Charleston

 

“We have to have a candid national conversation about race, and about discrimination, hatred, prejudice,” Clinton said of the Charleston shooting in an interview with Jon Ralston on his show “Ralston Live.”

 

"Public discourse is sometimes hotter and more negative than it should be, which can, in my opinion, trigger someone who is less than stable....I think we have to speak out against it. Like, for example, a recent entry into the Republican presidential campaign said some very inflammatory things about Mexicans. Everybody should stand up and say that’s not acceptable.”

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 6/20/15 at 4:32pm

Criticizing Trump is like shooting fish in a barrel. 

What are the Unions thinking? Does Hillary even care?

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 6/21/15 at 9:18am

"If you don't vote for the Democrat...the Republican gets elected."

That line of thinking drives me crazy. And every time I get into a debate with a Clinton supporter about her record it's the line they fall back on.  I have friends that are Hillary supporters that were directly effected by the awful bankruptcy law she voted for. Politics isn't a team sport. The stakes are too high to vote for someone just because they have a D behind their name.

I recognize that both parties are not "exactly the same" and that there are some significant differences between the two. But PJ, in another thread, you even recognized that neither party stands for the working class. The fact that neither of our major political parties stand for the working class has led us to live in a country with the highest rate of income inequality since before the Great Depression. We live in a country where American corporations of have wealth than any time in history but over half of our public school children live in poverty. And where millions of "middle class" families are one pay check away from falling into poverty themselves. I think it's very clear, from her extensive record, that Hillary Clinton is not the person to address these issues.

I don't want to have a snarky, hostile debate about this with you PJ. And I have gotten (maybe a little) snarky and for that I apologize. You're one of the posters that have kept me coming to this board and I know that on most political issues we probably agree 100%. The same thing applies to most of my close friends who are Hillary supporters.

The reason I get so passionate about this is because every day I go to work with some of those kids who are living in poverty. I get to see the direct effects of kids living in poverty who come to a public school system that is being sold off for profit...by Democrats. With support from Obama's Department of Education.

And every year I see kids die as a result of the current system we live under. Either from gun violence or some other consequence of poverty. I go to work in a school every day where over half of the students and faculty have PTSD. And I know this might all sound like hyperbole if you haven't been exposed to it. But it's not. I could provide a hundred links on the effects of poverty on children. And for anyone that hasn't been exposed to it, I would encourage you to go to your nearest public school in a poverty stricken neighborhood and volunteer. Talk to the staff and administration. Even if it doesn't change your mind, they could use your help.

So that's why this is such an important issue to me. It's why I feel we need a revolutionary candidate. Not more of the same. We need a candidate that WILL stand for people living in poverty and the working class. So I know Bernie Sanders is not a perfect candidate, and I know it's unlikely he'll get the nomination, but I will support him every way I can as long as he's in the race. And people can criticize me all they want but I think the fact that Sanders can run, and people can openly support him, is one of the great things left about this country.

 

[South Florida]

Posted: 6/21/15 at 9:54am

Clinton detractors have dominated this thread.  PJ has been the lone wolf.  Erik, your issues are the ones that will dominate the upcoming debate, that in itself is a victory.  The GOP will coalesce behind whichever candidate emerges, PJ is concerned the Dems won't do the same.  I'm of the opinion we need this debate, and if this results in the Dems losing the election because of it, so be it.  She's got my vote if she emerges, are there a lot of Borstalboys and Erik's who won't vote, maybe, but their voices will be heard in the primaries and their voices need to be heard  

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 6/21/15 at 10:14am

I never said I wouldn't vote. I'll always vote.

[South Florida]

Posted: 6/21/15 at 11:04am

Well then, as of now, which of the announced GOP candidates would get your vote over Hillary?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/21/15 at 11:29am

"if this results in the Dems losing the election because of it, so be it."

"So be it"?

SO BE IT?

If this results in a conservative Supreme Court for the rest of our lives, "so be it"?

If this results in the overturning of Roe v. Wade, "so be it"?

If this results in the overturning of any and all laws protecting marriage equality, "so be it"?

If this results in the loss of whatever voting rights are left, "so be it"?

If this is really what you are willing to do, your Hillary Hatred is pathological and pitiable.

If you are really willing to say "so be it," then what happens in the next Republican administration will NOT be the fault of the Republicans.

It will be YOUR fault.

"So be it."

[South Florida]

Posted: 6/21/15 at 2:27pm

Whoa!  I don't hate Hillary at all.  Others in here might hate her.  Again, if having the debate about income inequality is going to create a benefit for the GOP, then so be it. The part about the Supreme Court is important but there is no guarantee a Republican will be a two term president.  Why concern yourself PJ?  I thought this was going to be a slam dunk for her.  Without Bernie Sanders or someone like him, would income inequality be an important issue in the Democratic primary?  Who speaks for the poor in this country?  How many politicians say they want to help the middle class?  Who says I stand before you as a candidate dedicated to helping the poorest among us?  I have stated in here many times that I would vote for Clinton if she was the Democratic nominee.

1) Conservative SC for the rest of our lives - Our lives, maybe.  If a Republican gets in for 8 years we could have a problem, 2 of the three oldest justices are on our side.  Your first point is a good one, but it's not guaranteed a GOP will get two terms, and who dies and dosen't is totally speculative.

2) Roe v. Wade will not be overturned, do you honestly think we can go back now.

3) Marriage equality is here forever, both sides agree on that.

4) Voting rights is a big issue for me, as it stands now this is a state by state issue and the Republicans control both houses of almost 70% of the states, where has the expansion been under Obama?  How much more can they obstruct the vote without creating serious backlash?  It will take more than a Democratic president to roll back these insane voter ID laws.

I respect your opinion on these issues, as I do Erik's, where we seem to differ is I think this a debate this country needs to have now, you seem like you would rather it go away.

 

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 6/21/15 at 2:44pm

2) Roe v. Wade will not be overturned, do you honestly think we can go back now.

In just the last 4 years, states have enacted 231 abortion restrictions


https://www.guttmacher.org/media/infographics/last-four-years-231-restrictions.html


(Somehow I've lost the ability to link. In fact, the whole editing panel is gone for me)






Updated On: 6/21/15 at 02:44 PM